Powerful Hope After Heartbreak with Kaitlyn Hogancamp

Pregnancy loss is more common than many realize, yet countless families continue to grieve in silence. In this deeply personal conversation, Kaitlyn Hogancamp explains why every loss matters and how compassionate support can help families carry hope alongside their grief.

Kaitlyn, a mother and committee member with the Sea of Hope Foundation, shares the heartbreak of experiencing two pregnancy losses, including one she discovered while it was happening. She discusses the guilt and self-blame she carried, the fear that followed her into another pregnancy, and the unforgettable moment she finally heard her rainbow baby cry.

Christina O’Mara also explains how the Sea of Hope Foundation supports families affected by pregnancy, infancy, and early toddler loss.

In this episode:

•  Why miscarriage and pregnancy loss should not remain taboo 
•  How innocent questions about having children can cause hidden pain 
•  What pregnancy after loss can feel like emotionally 
•  Why grief has no deadline or expiration date 
•  How the Sea of Hope Foundation helps parents and siblings 

Learn more, request assistance, view support-group information, or make a donation at Sea of Hope Foundation.

This episode is sponsored by Harford’s Heart Magazine.

If this conversation reminds you of someone who may be suffering quietly, please share it with them. Subscribe to Conversations with Rich Bennett, leave a review, and join the conversation by sharing your thoughts or contacting Rich directly.

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Transcript

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Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Hartford County Living presents, Conversations with Rich Bennett. "I have a good time." 

"I have a good time." "I have a good time." "I have a good time." "I have a good time." "I have a good time." "It's kind of a few seconds of hours of work." "It's kind of a few seconds of work." "It's kind of a few seconds of work." "It's kind of a few seconds of work." "It's kind of a few seconds of 

Rich Bennett 0:27
"I 

Wendy & Rich 0:27
work."

Rich Bennett 0:27
have a special guest back who was on before Christina Mare from Sea of Hope Foundation."

Christina O'Mara 0:34
" [Indistinct chatter] "And Christina is 

Rich Bennett 0:34
brought to special guest in with her today, and we're going to hear her story because when Christina was on before, actually was Tammy that brought you in, right?" 

Christina O'Mara 0:44
Tammy was the one that brought me in. Well, no. So it was-- Tammy 

Rich Bennett 0:49
told me that. 

Christina O'Mara 0:49
Tammy told you about me, but it was-- Oh, my gosh, why am I blanking on her? I'm blanking on her from a Harvard magazine. 

Rich Bennett 0:58
Sandy. 

Christina O'Mara 0:59
No, no, no, no. The anchor, the anchor from W. 

Rich Bennett 1:03
Oh, 

Christina O'Mara 1:04
J. C. 

Rich Bennett 1:04
Christy. Christy, 

Christina O'Mara 1:05
Christy. She is the one who told me to reach out to you. 

Rich Bennett 1:08
Okay. 

Christina O'Mara 1:09
And then that's how we got to talking to-- Tammy, we just happened to meet by chance at some other function. 

Rich Bennett 1:17
Oh, and I, is Tammy the co-host? 

Christina O'Mara 1:19
Right. Not even knowing, 

Rich Bennett 1:21
Wow. 

Christina O'Mara 1:21
yeah. So small world. 

Rich Bennett 1:23
Wow. 

Christina O'Mara 1:24
Yeah. So 

Rich Bennett 1:26
Yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 1:26
that's how we started the conversation, and that's how we did our first interview. 

Rich Bennett 1:32
Well, for those people that for some reason didn't listen to that episode, tell them what Sea of Hope Foundation is. 

Christina O'Mara 1:38
So the Sea of Hope Foundation is a nonprofit organization that supports families who've suffered from infancy, pregnancy, and early toddler loss. And we provide financial assistance for funeral costs. We host support groups every month. We provide bereavement boxes to the hospitals. We just donated our very first caring cradle to a hospital. We were very excited about that. And we offer a bereave sibling scholarship program called the WAPE Promise. It is for siblings who have lost siblings either that have come before or after them due to pregnancy, infancy, and early toddlerhood loss. And there are two separate scholarships in the amount of $800 each that go to their continuous education. 

Rich Bennett 2:26
Nice. 

Christina O'Mara 2:27
So that's 

Rich Bennett 2:27
we-- 

Christina O'Mara 2:28
what 

Rich Bennett 2:29
I have to-- I have to ask you what is a 

Christina O'Mara 2:33
A caring cradle is a device. A more known device is called a cuddle-cott, but a cuddle-cott is made in the UK. The caring cradle is made right here in the United States. It's a device that hospitals use to help families spend more time with their babies who have passed away. It slows down the process of rigor mortis by using a cooling system. 

Rich Bennett 2:58
caring cradle? Oh, 

Christina O'Mara 2:58
So it looks like a bassenet or a cradle, and the refrigeration unit is attached to it. So you wouldn't know that that's what's under there. It just looks like a standard cradle. And there's a cooling mat and a cooling pad so that it gives that dome of 

Rich Bennett 3:18
right. 

Christina O'Mara 3:19
cool air, so it slows down that process. So families can have more time with their child. They can bring in photography to come in. Just like now I lay me down as a nonprofit 

Rich Bennett 3:31
Yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 3:31
that sends photographers out to hospitals to take photos for those families. So it gives them a little bit more time to grieve and to process the loss that they've had. 

Rich Bennett 3:41
Is that something pretty-- and when I say pretty new within like the last 10 years or so? 

Christina O'Mara 3:46
I would say they've been around. So, carrying cradle is newer than cuddle-cot. Cuddle-cot has been around for a while. Their units are a little bit more complicated than the carrying cradle. Cuddle-cot-cots are a tubing cooling water system that helps up to a mat that they can take the baby out and hold the baby with the mat. 

Rich Bennett 4:10
Right. 

Christina O'Mara 4:10
But there's a lot more things that make it hard-scope-ad. Things can be messy. So, we felt that someone unit that had everything all packed in and was made here would be much better. And we found out when I did place the order for it that carrying cradle makes notes and documents in their system of which hospital it goes to, so that they can follow up with the hospital to make sure that everything is working correctly. And I found out from the hospital that we donated it to that some hospitals don't accept outside of the country's equipment. So, 

Rich Bennett 4:49
Ah. 

Christina O'Mara 4:49
if we would have purchased a cuddle-cot, we may not be able to 

Rich Bennett 4:54
Right. 

Christina O'Mara 4:54
donate it to a hospital because it's not made here within the United States. 

Rich Bennett 4:58
I don't think something like that was around, 

Christina O'Mara 5:04
Probably not. 

Rich Bennett 5:05
yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 5:05
Yeah, it's, 

Rich Bennett 5:07
thousands, 

Christina O'Mara 5:07
and if it was, it was in its first developmental 

Rich Bennett 5:09
right? 

Christina O'Mara 5:10
stages. 

Rich Bennett 5:10
But that's, I love that. 

Christina O'Mara 5:12
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 5:12
I-- The idea. 

Christina O'Mara 5:13
So, we purchased our, our very first one and donated it to MedStar Franklin Square. 

Rich Bennett 5:20
Okay. All right. 

Christina O'Mara 5:21
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 5:22
So, for those of you listening, I talked to Christine, I kind of put her on a spot, but you know, I think it's a great idea. Because of all the people that she comes in contact with with See a Folk Foundation, I thought it'd be a great idea for her to bring them in and hear their stories just like Wendy does with rage against addiction to hear people's stories. And I'm actually going to turn it over to Christine so she can introduce Argus. Her guest, 

Christina O'Mara 5:56
Argus, Argus. We can say Argus. 

Rich Bennett 5:57
Argus, because I'll mess up the name and call her Julia Valerie again, and it's not even that. So, who did you bring with us today, with us? Who did you bring with you today? Wow. Rent it, lips here. 

Christina O'Mara 6:10
So, today I've brought one of my wonderful committee members, Caitlin Hogan Camp, and our story began before her story began 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 6:20
Yes. 

Christina O'Mara 6:21
for her story even began. So, how I met Caitlin. 

Rich Bennett 6:26
Okay. I was going to say wait. I was getting confused there. Okay, go ahead. 

Christina O'Mara 6:29
So, her story, how we met was actually through her mom. And in the most non-conventional way at the time. I, my 14-year-old now, who is, who was, gosh, I think four years old at the time. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 6:44
Sounds about 

Christina O'Mara 6:45
Yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 6:45
right. 

Christina O'Mara 6:45
we took him to a trunker tree at John Carroll High School. And her mom and her sister, Christie, were on a truck that was decked out in all Disney. And I was a huge Disney fan, and I was like, oh, I love your setup. It looks amazing. I said, are you part of this group that's on Facebook? And she said, yes, I am. And I said, I am too. So, we started talking, and she's like, I have this daughter that works for Disney, and you know, and I'll should introduce you to each other and this other. And I was like, okay, this sounds great. So... Fast forward a little bit, and I had lost Ariella, 

Rich Bennett 7:27
Right. 

Christina O'Mara 7:27
and we decided we were going to host them. We were going to create the mermaid run in the under the sea bash, so I was like, okay, you know, we need vendors. So at that time, Caitlin became one of my very first vendors. I reached out to her specifically, and said, hey, I'm throwing this event together, and I think you would be a perfect fit. Why don't you 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 7:48
Yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 7:48
come? 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 7:48
your mom said that you create a bunch of stuff, and I feel like it's the right vibe, like 

Christina O'Mara 7:53
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 7:53
is it something that you'd want to do? And I was like, absolutely. Give me the details. 

Rich Bennett 7:56
What kind of stuff are you creating? 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 7:58
So, at the time, I was mainly doing home decor 

Rich Bennett 8:00
Okay. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 8:00
and painting, and I would do a lot of custom work. I would do commissions for different paintings. I've done them for tribute events. I've had a few things go to different auctions. Yeah, I've done a lot. 

Christina O'Mara 8:12
So when she 

Rich Bennett 8:14
Wow. 

Christina O'Mara 8:14
said, yeah, she's like, yeah, I'm on board and I was like, okay, great. I have my very first vendor. We're going to get this moving forward. So, we hosted the mermaid run under the sea bash and everybody loved it. 

Rich Bennett 8:27
great. 

Christina O'Mara 8:27
And Caitlin loved it and had a I was already with another non profit organization 

Rich Bennett 8:32
Hmm, 

Christina O'Mara 8:33
and I was in the process of starting the Sea of Hope Foundation. And in that time frame, Caitlin who will definitely share her story 'cause I know she will, uh, unfortunately had suffered a loss and she came to me with just needing some support. Needing 

Rich Bennett 8:50
right. 

Christina O'Mara 8:50
to find that support. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 8:51
Getting connection in community, 

Christina O'Mara 8:52
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 8:53
Yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 8:54
was vital. 

Christina O'Mara 8:55
so the original, the original, meet and greet with us became so much more after our original story had begun and then her story 

Rich Bennett 9:06
And 

Christina O'Mara 9:06
took a new path. Right, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 9:09
yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 9:09
Oh, yeah. Oh, so 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 9:10
Well, and it was one of those things where like we always joke, it was definitely a faded meeting because like how did we come 

Rich Bennett 9:17
much. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 9:17
even into 

Rich Bennett 9:17
Right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 9:17
each other's circle? So like she was saying at the time that she got introduced to my mom, I was currently working at Walt Disney World. So I'm a former cast member. I absolutely loved working for the company. The thing that brought me up here was that my daughter was born and I had complications during her birth. So because I wasn't medically clear to return to work, we wound up coming up here to live with my parents and then just fell in love with the area and wound up staying. 

Rich Bennett 9:42
So you're not from here originally. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 9:43
No, I'm originally from Chicago. I know I said I've lived 

Christina O'Mara 9:48
places. I'm 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 9:48
in 

Christina O'Mara 9:48
not from 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 9:48
multiple 

Christina O'Mara 9:49
here originally either. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 9:50
Yeah, so I'm originally from Chicago about 45 minutes south in Wilk County 

Christina O'Mara 9:55
and I was I was born in New York. I lived in New York until 1999 and then my family moved to Florida and I lived in Florida from 99 all the way up until 2008. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 10:09
And I, in high school moved down to Florida because my dad had a job transfer and that's where I met my husband. We went to college together at University of North Florida. I ended up in the college program with Disney. Then I would start working for them full time before coming up here. 

Rich Bennett 10:24
But your parents moved up here. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 10:25
Correct. And 

Rich Bennett 10:26
Correct. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 10:26
that was for a different job transfer. crazy. Oh, yeah. So the fact that we've even met in general 

Christina O'Mara 10:32
It's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 10:32
is 

Christina O'Mara 10:32
the 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 10:32
absolutely 

Rich Bennett 10:32
it's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 10:33
insane, 

Rich Bennett 10:33
I don't have enough 

Christina O'Mara 10:33
but 

Rich Bennett 10:34
pins for care. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 10:35
A lot of red yarn. 

Christina O'Mara 10:37
Crazy a story in the weirdest way, but it's 

Rich Bennett 10:40
But 

Christina O'Mara 10:41
so. 

Rich Bennett 10:41
it was meant to be. 

Christina O'Mara 10:41
It was meant to be because some days there's like, you know, I need somebody who could read my brain and Caitlin reads my brain nine times out of 10. And then there's times where Kate looks like she goes off on these tangents and then I'm like, are you Caleb come back, come back. And then I'll go in the other direction. So like, are you crazy. Come back, come back. So 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 11:02
we're good at moderating 

Christina O'Mara 11:02
Yes. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 11:03
each other. 

Rich Bennett 11:05
Wow. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 11:06
But it's complimentary and good 

Christina O'Mara 11:07
It 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 11:07
way. 

Christina O'Mara 11:07
is. It is. It is. It's very much as and what's grown from loss has been so incredible to see. 

Rich Bennett 11:15
Yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 11:15
Just in itself. And you know, we, Caitlin says so many nice things when she talks about her story to other people. I just kind of sit back and listen to how she explains it. So I'm definitely going to let you do that because I'm going to sit here 

Rich Bennett 11:30
listen 

Christina O'Mara 11:30
and just 

Rich Bennett 11:30
to you. I need to grab the clean next 

Christina O'Mara 11:32
Maybe 

Rich Bennett 11:32
first. 

Christina O'Mara 11:32
for you. I've heard I've heard it. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 11:41
Whatever works. 

Rich Bennett 11:45
So 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 11:45
for everyone listening, obviously, we are going to be talking about loss. If that is too heavy of a topic for you, that's completely understandable. We just want to share our truth and the story of our children to help keep their memory alive and keep the hope that there's, there's more out there to life. It might feel like your world is absolutely collapsing. You have a safety never need to feel. So as Christine has stated, we met before my losses. So I'd started off just as a vendor for the under the sea bash. 

Christina O'Mara 12:19
Yes. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 12:23
Yes. So with my oldest. So we were, we were pregnant at the same time. So her loss was in April. My daughter was born in June. So that was another way that we bonded was we were pregnant at the same time and talking about yes. 

Yeah, and I know we've talked about it. There's a bittersweet element where it's good for Christina to be able to kind of see where our yellow might've been, and like either in development or size, or just having that interaction, but having a bit of that kindredness. Yeah, so that was definitely helpful. But yeah, so that was one of the good ways that we bonded. And then about two years later, I wound up suffering a loss without knowing I was pregnant. So how I found out I had been pregnant was I was in the middle of a miscarriage. So it hit me like a ton of bricks because there was that moment of, oh my gosh, I'm pregnant. Oh my gosh, I'm not. It was all the emotions all at once. I wasn't even sure, like I was in so much shock initially. I had no idea what was happening to my body. I had never really had anybody who had explicitly shared, okay, here are the things you're going to be feeling, here are some of the things that might be happening. At first, I just thought that it was just that was natural course. And then I quickly realized it was more than that. 

Rich Bennett 13:59
How far long were you, if you don't 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 14:01
I, no, that's totally fine. They estimate I was between six to eight weeks. 

Rich Bennett 14:05
know? Okay. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 14:06
So 

Rich Bennett 14:07
This is 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 14:08
when? 

Rich Bennett 14:08
before, Gemma, or after. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 14:09
This is after. So I had had my daughter, Gemma. She was almost two years old at that time. And so I had gone in. I was confirmed that my, my levels were high, but they were dipping. 'Cause they had kind of, they went to check, they said they didn't see anything on the interior. So they were like, okay, well, it's, you know, it has been removed. So now you're just going to process for the next few days, come back in, we'll keep a track of your levels, make sure that they're going down steadily, make sure there's no crash, and we'll go from there. So completely past naturally, a lot to process, but Christina and I think my mom were literally two of the only people I told initially, because I just didn't know what to do or how to process it. I wound up telling the rest of my family about a week or so after the fact, but I did not tell a soul outside of immediate family. 

I think you 

Rich Bennett 15:04
told me while you were at the 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 15:07
other. 

Yeah. 

I think that's 

Christina O'Mara 15:10
how to 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 15:16
make it. 

Oh, like I had already committed, but I didn't realize how hard it would hit me at the event, and then I was like, hey, when you get a moment, I know you're so incredibly, so I'm very busy. When you get a moment, I really need to talk to someone, but I need someone who can understand. 

Rich Bennett 15:31
So how do you have time to have that moment? 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 15:36
We had like a sweet like 10-15 minutes slot where we could talk, and so she heavily encouraged that I reach back out to the organization she was working with at the time, find some other groups. If I needed anything, like she'd let me know, and I was just in still a whirlwind at that time, where I was like, okay, was it a fluke, that wasn't happening? You have a million questions. Was it a genetic thing? Was something just unviable? Like, did I, was it something that I did? And I didn't know, and I'm like going through and like trying to explain a way to myself why it could have happened? While also making sure it wasn't something that I did. I lived with that guilt for a very long time, thinking, did I consume something? Did I do something, and the answer really is no. There was nothing that I did that would have prevented what had happened. It was just unviable. My body just didn't take, and it went through its natural course. And again, I don't think a lot of women are prepared for that because no one really likes to have these conversations. 

I'm 

being asked that. 

Yes, oh yeah. 

Nobody tells you what 

Rich Bennett 16:47
happened. 

Nope. 

Are 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 16:50
everybody--

Mm hm. 

You don't talk, 

Rich Bennett 17:00
that's your thing. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 17:01
Yeah, or you're worried, you are going to scare someone out of it and having that experience. One of the things I, I have joke but I am kind of serious about, I will ask people when they're like, oh, so tell me about your birth stories, and I'll be like, I need to preface, do you actually want to know about real world complications that can arise and have happened? 'Cause I somehow managed to have four, one in a million pregnancies, or do you want me to just explain that I would definitely go through with it again knowing everything I went through. I said, 'cause those are two very different conversations. Because yes, I can share the reality, but I can also share the positive outcomes that have come from those experiences, and how I would not change a thing other than if I could hold my babies, I would. I can't change that, but what I can do is make a positive impact instead. 

Rich Bennett 17:50
Yeah, yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 17:50
So I'm very, very clear, like when it comes to communication with others who are starting their parenting journey, of like, hey, would you like, one of the big questions I get, would you still have gone through with all this knowing what you know now? And my answer is still, absolutely. I would, I would never change how my life has gone other than for positive reasons, 

Rich Bennett 18:11
right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 18:11
that doesn't mean that I would take away the things that I have learned from those situations either. 'Cause that information has been invaluable, and my perspective on life too is-- 

No. (chuckles) So--

Rich Bennett 18:25
Could you back up a minute? 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 18:26
Yeah, sure. 

Rich Bennett 18:27
When you say you told your immediate 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 18:29
family, 

Rich Bennett 18:30
you told Christina and you say your 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 18:33
So my mother was the first person, well besides my husband who I told immediately 

Rich Bennett 18:37
mother? I 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 18:37
because 

Rich Bennett 18:37
was going to say ask 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 18:38
yeah, I know I told him like I was literally like I came out of the restaurant, I was like, I think I'm having a miscarriage and he was like, what does that mean? Like he like he didn't even have no heat. I mean we were young like 

Rich Bennett 18:49
right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 18:50
we had only been married at that point for like three years. So like even though we had been together since we were 15 and 16, he had no idea what that really meant because it wasn't, that wasn't what went on in life. It wasn't like a normal checkpoint. Yeah, so he was like what's a miscarriage and then I was like, I, I was pregnant and now I'm not and he's like, what does that mean? And I was like, well we're going to be doing a lot of research, you know, 

Rich Bennett 19:15
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 19:16
together, but like I just need to emotionally process what's going on right now. 

Rich Bennett 19:19
Do you think Gemma at two, I'm sure she's too young to tell, but 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 19:24
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 19:24
it seemed like she could sense something 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 19:27
there are times I do believe like she had known when I was and I can get to that in future discussion too with her things are a little more complicated because she is autistic. So she's mostly nonverbal, she's working on it, her communication skills are getting better and better, but she lives an expressed life a lot differently than most kids. I will say though, she is very empathetically attuned to others and she can pick up on that kind of stuff so she definitely knew something was happening, but I don't think she could fully realize like the concept of losing a sibling, like I don't think it was quite to that level at that age. But yeah, as she got older, there was definitely a little more recognition. 

Rich Bennett 20:08
okay, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 20:08
So, 

about three years after my initial loss, I found out I was pregnant. We were elated because we had already been like, we put it off a little bit once she had gotten her diagnosis about four years old. We were like, okay, do we have more children? Do we reduce what we're thinking? How do we want to do this as parents? And one of the things we were like is we don't want to, we've always wanted two kids. So we were like, so we do want to continue trying and we want to at least have one more, but we want to make sure we have enough time and energy to be able to focus on Jemma and her needs. 

Rich Bennett 20:44
Right, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 20:44
so we were like, okay, we're going to have one more and then we're done. So, found out I was pregnant, gosh, this was, Just before her birth, like this was in March of 2023. It was March of 2023, because we were going to Disney World. 

So, we found out two weeks before a planned vacation with our family to go celebrate my daughter's fifth birthday. So, we were going to take her to Disney World for her first time. She had never been before. We wanted to make sure she could experience everything. 

Rich Bennett 21:18
yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 21:18
She could go dress up as a princess, stupidity, 

Rich Bennett 21:20
five 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 21:20
bopety, 

Rich Bennett 21:20
years old, that's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 21:20
petite. 

Rich Bennett 21:21
two. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 21:21
Oh, yeah. And that way she could make memories that she would start to remember. So, we have been so excited because we found out about two weeks before the trip. We were going to tell my family at Disney World because that's where my husband proposed to me. There's just a lot of good memories associated with my time down there. So, like we got engaged in front of Cinderella Castle. And so, we wanted it to be part of our story. I told Rory that I was pregnant with Gemma at Disney World at Magic Kingdom. So, we were going to continue that 

Christina O'Mara 21:54
house 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 21:55
of f*cking stuff. I do. 

Rich Bennett 21:56
What, I have to ask this. What 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 21:58
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 21:58
cast member were you? 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 22:00
So, I started off in recreation. I initially was a lifeguard. And I did that for the first part of my college program. When I extended, I moved into what's called main entrance operations. They also call it MEO. That is helping out in the parking lot, driving the trams, which is a total blast. I loved that. We got to do the spills on the back, help with safety, making sure people got in and out of the parking lot okay. Which doesn't sound fun, but it was a blast. 

Rich Bennett 22:28
You say, when you say cast member, I'm thinking you're dressing up like 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 22:31
gay. So, 

Rich Bennett 22:32
something. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 22:33
everyone who works for Disney at least in the parks is called and referred to as a cast member because we are all putting on a show. So, we are all part of the cast. So, they're 

Christina O'Mara 22:42
All 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 22:42
all 

Christina O'Mara 22:43
cast 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 22:43
cast members. 

Christina O'Mara 22:44
members are 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 22:44
As 

Christina O'Mara 22:45
a cast member, dress up as a face cast member or a... 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 22:49
Yeah, there's four characters. There's face characters. Those are the individuals that you will meet. We refer to them as friends of a character. So, friends of Chip or Dale, friends of Mickey Mouse, friends of Cinderella. That's how they're referred to. So, 

Christina O'Mara 23:06
they went. She was on planning to go to take gem 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 23:09
Gemma 

Christina O'Mara 23:09
magazine. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 23:09
to 

Christina O'Mara 23:10
Is 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 23:10
Disney. 

Yeah, so we were planning to take Gemma to Disney World for her first trip. And the Friday before our trip, we were going to be leaving on a Wednesday. The Friday before the trip, it was St. Patrick's Day. And I just remember being at work, and I just immediately got a sense that something was wrong. 

Rich Bennett 23:28
me? Oh shit. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 23:29
And it was one of those moments where I'm like, okay, what is this feeling? Is this something in me? Is this something in my mind? Am I worried about something like regarding the trip? Did I forget to pack something? Did I forget to finish something at work? And then I quickly realized, no, this is an internal, 

Rich Bennett 23:44
Mm-hmm. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 23:45
something is like impending doom wrong. And so I got nervous. I'm like, okay, wait a minute. Am I kind of sensing there's something wrong with somebody else, or no, this is actually me. And then it's again going through that shock of, no, it's something in my body, I can feel. 

Rich Bennett 23:59
Yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 24:00
So I finished out my shift at work. I really shouldn't have, but I finished out my shift at work. And was like, okay, I call my husband and I said, I'm going to the hospital. And he was like, why? 'Cause again, we had known for two weeks, I was pregnant. 

Rich Bennett 24:15
right, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 24:16
And I said, I'm going to the hospital, something just doesn't feel right. And he was like, okay, you feel sick, and I was like, I literally can't tell you in pinpoint what it is. I just feel like something's wrong and I'm scared it's something with the baby. 

Rich Bennett 24:28
yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 24:28
And he was like, okay, like, you know, go. I've got Jemma. Don't even worry about us. I was supposed to go and help my family with something while they were celebrating with St. Patrick's Day. And I couldn't even call my mom because I was going to break. And 

Rich Bennett 24:43
yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 24:43
so I was just like, I texted her and I'm like, hey, I'm so sorry to do this last minute. I'm not going to be able to make it. I have to go handle something real quick. And of course, she tries calling me, calling me, calling me. Like, what's wrong with my baby? Like, I don't act. Well, I don't act like that. That's way out of character 

Rich Bennett 25:01
Yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 25:01
for- So cause you can ask Christina, I'm there early and on time. And if I am even going to be a minute late, I let her know 10 minutes before 

Rich Bennett 25:10
right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 25:10
that even happens. So like I'm not the last minute cancellation kind of person. So she's freaking out. I literally couldn't answer the phone because I am like freaking out in the hospital just sitting there waiting for someone to take me back from triage and I'm just bawling because like, I could just feel. I didn't know how to explain it to anybody but when they were like, okay, so what brings you in today? Hi, I think I'm losing my baby. And what do you say to that? I mean, the poor receptionist. Her face was like, wait, you're pregnant cause I wasn't very far along. I wasn't 

Rich Bennett 25:45
Right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 25:46
obviously showing her anything. And I was just like, I think I'm losing my baby. And she was like, okay, the women's center's closed and I'm like, that's why I'm at the ER. You know, that's why I'm here. 

Christina O'Mara 25:58
A lot of the women's centers will take pregnant women 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:03
under eight to 10 weeks. 

Christina O'Mara 26:04
It's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:05
Yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 26:06
under certain ones do under 18 I 

Rich Bennett 26:08
weeks. 

Christina O'Mara 26:08
think you cannot 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:09
go. 

Rich Bennett 26:09
You cannot go through 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:10
that center. 

Christina O'Mara 26:11
You're literally diverted to the ER. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:14
Until, yeah, until they're at a viability. Yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 26:17
until they're at a viable state, which 

Rich Bennett 26:21
happens. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:23
Happens 

Christina O'Mara 26:24
at 24 weeks is what we are told. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:27
But 

Christina O'Mara 26:29
babies can and have survived up. I think it's up to 21 weeks. I 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:36
the 

Christina O'Mara 26:36
think 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:37
most successful, yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 26:39
21, It's very rare that that happens, but 

Rich Bennett 26:43
it's happened though. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:44
Yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 26:45
It's happened, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:45
Well, and so again, we were projecting that I was around the 8 to 10 week mark, possibly as much as 12 at that point, 

Rich Bennett 26:52
right? 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 26:52
but I wasn't confident in that. I was thinking it was more the 8 to 10 and they didn't have like a women's unit to take me to. So they took me to pediatric. And so they took me in to get the ultrasound. So I went and got the ultrasound. Then they moved me into pediatric and they were like. Okay, how do you, how do you tell this woman she's losing her baby? So they came in the doctor who told me her bedside manner to this day. I'm so incredibly grateful. She was on on the clock because I've had instances at other offices where I didn't have the best bedside manner from people. That's a whole other story for a whole other time, but she was absolutely amazing. She sat down with me. She said, "Hey, do you have anybody with you?" And that's when knew it was bad as soon as they say, "Hey, is there anybody with you?" And I just remember kind of going numb and just blurting out, "Well, no, I'm by myself." And she was like, "Okay, like, is there anyone that you might want to call?" And I was like, "Well, my husband who's home with our autistic two-year-old?" And I was like, "At that time, an autistic five-year-old." And I was like, "No, like, I, like, it would just be more chaotic trying to bring her in here and having a reality discussion." So I was like, "Not in a good way." I said, "I can get him on the phone." And she's like, "No, I wouldn't want to say it over the phone." And she's like, "Um, she's like, so she's like, we can confirm you are pregnant because I hadn't had formal confirmation yet because it was so, well, it was so early they don't do a confirmation until after a couple months. 

Christina O'Mara 28:22
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 28:22
Oh, 

Christina O'Mara 28:22
it's after, so typically when you become pregnant, when you are at eight weeks, they usually set you up for an appointment to come in to take a blood test and to take a urine test to confirm that you are pregnant. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 28:36
And then it 

Christina O'Mara 28:36
follows that a couple of weeks after 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 28:39
Yeah, ten to twelve to get an ultrasound. 

Christina O'Mara 28:41
ultrasound. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 28:43
So 

Rich Bennett 28:43
Okay. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 28:43
yeah, so she's like, "We can confirm, based on testing that you are pregnant." And she goes, "However, based on the ultrasound, the heart rate is too low." And she's like, "So your baby at this point should have roughly like 45 to 50 beats per minute. We're at sub 30." So she's like, and it through tracing was already starting to even slow at that rate. 

Rich Bennett 29:09
Oh, God. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 29:09
So she said, "It's probably going to be a few days before there's no heartbeat, but at this point there's not really a way for baby to come back unless there's an absolute miracle." And I just remember, I was literally sitting on the badge as shaking, and she gave me the best, but also worst hug of my life, of having just sit there and just be there to comfort me, and she waited for me to let her go. She didn't try to pull away. She wanted to make sure that I was comforted in that moment because I was alone. 

Rich Bennett 29:46
somebody 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 29:46
And I'm hearing children literally in the rooms next to me giggling and laughing, and like, the nurses trying to keep their spirits up. And I'm trying not to cry too loud because I don't want to scare those poor kids. And, you know, there's a lot of million things going on. And she was like, "I am so sorry that I have to be the one to tell you and that you're here on your own." And she was like, "But she's like, I'm going to get you your appointment for Monday to follow up with the OB. We'll do another confirmation and we'll see where things are at." And so I went home. I stopped by my parents, 

Rich Bennett 30:20
drove from by yourself. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 30:21
Yeah. So I went out into the parking lot and just balls, because this is now the second, the second time. 

I was just like at that point, it's, again, to totally blame me myself of what's wrong with my body. Why can't I do what I literally and made and created it to do? Like, why is my body failing me? We want this so bad what it is is something I 

Rich Bennett 30:41
And 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 30:41
did, and just going through just this constant bad dream of myself, of, you know, what can I have done different? What did I possibly do that is is making this happen again? Do I have a condition? Do I have something going on where I just don't know and it's, you know, making things hostile. So that was not a fun period of time. But yeah, so I drove first over to my parents house because it was on my way home. Because they were all scared. They're all blowing up my phone, my dad and my sister are blowing up my phone. And everyone's like, what is the matter? And I was like, I'm gonna stop by mom and dad's real quick like, okay, we're all here. You know, my sisters were both there at the time. And I walk in and they're like, what is happening? Because again, this is completely out of character for me. And I explain, I said, what I'm about to tell you, I need you to take a beat before you respond to it. And I was like, because I need to get all of it out, but it's going to take me a minute. And they were like, okay, you know, they were very respectful. And I was like, I'm pregnant, but and it was that immediate like everyone's like, but there's a bud. 

Rich Bennett 31:54
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 31:54
And so I was like, but I'm losing the baby, okay. Um, and. They just, again, they all came and surrounded me. They were hugging me, praying over me, trying to, both bring me comfort, but praying for a miracle, because you don't want to lose hope. 

Rich Bennett 32:13
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 32:13
If there's any, you want to hold on to it. And so, again, a profoundly awful but beautiful moment at the same time of them being able to come together and support me, and just being able to accept love in that moment, where I felt like the most just disgusting, awful 

Christina O'Mara 32:38
thing. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 32:38
In those 

Christina O'Mara 32:39
moments when you're told, either you're told that you can't come back from this worst thing. You're in a time period where you're either by yourself or you're with one other person, and you're now having to think, I have to process what's going on, but I also have to process how to tell 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 33:00
Yes. And 

Rich Bennett 33:01
everyone. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 33:01
the level of, especially with being more empathetic, is knowing how that's going to affect other people and knowing that you're going to hurt them, even inadvertently. But in order for people to love you back, you have to be willing to open up and be honest and fair with them. So I had called my husband on my way over to my parents, because he had our, literally his first words were, "Are you losing the baby?" And I said, "Yeah," and he's like, "There's nothing we can do." And I was like, "No." way too early, it's all we can do is pray. And he was like, "Okay, I'm gonna get Gemma to bed, and then when you get home, I'm here for you, what do you need me to prepare?" And I was just like, "Just you? Just you be ready?" A nice comfort movie just in the background might not hurt, but I was like, "I do need to go tell them." I said, "Cause they're all freaked out right now." 

Christina O'Mara 33:50
It's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 33:50
So I went and told them, I told them I was like, I was like, "I appreciate it. Everything that they were doing, but I needed to go home and be with Rory, my husband." And so they understood, and they were like, "Okay, just you tell us when you're ready, if you need to have any discussion or anything, and how we can help." And I was like, any help that you can help, especially with, you know, with Gemma at the time. Like, that would be amazing if Rory and I could even just have an evening where we can just process everything, but that was something we'd figure out. 

Christina O'Mara 34:21
And then a little later, she had contacted me. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 34:24
And 

Christina O'Mara 34:25
we went through it all again, and we went through, you know, the one thing that I tell everybody that comes to me, that has lost knowing from my own personal grief and my own personal experience, is in the first five years of after losing my daughter, I blamed myself for 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 34:44
five years, 

Rich Bennett 34:46
and 

Christina O'Mara 34:46
it took me that long to realize that it wasn't my fault. And whenever somebody comes to me, I make sure that they know that you did everything you possibly could to save or to be there not to do anything wrong. not your 

Rich Bennett 35:04
And you're 

Christina O'Mara 35:04
fault. This 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 35:04
is the sad of your 

Christina O'Mara 35:06
hands and just making sure that they that's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 35:10
know 

Christina O'Mara 35:10
so, because that grief, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 35:11
grief, 

Christina O'Mara 35:12
that blame, that guilt, it weighs the heaviest. It is the heaviest thing to bear. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 35:18
I mean, we've talked about, it literally like it's eating away at your soul. Like you, you become almost a completely new person after, excuse me, after experiencing loss at that level. So yeah, so I had gone home, we were able to, you know, be there for each other and... Around the one month or so mark afterwards. I finally got to the point because like we starting to get more and more questions from family of oh, are you going to have any more kids? Like, 

Rich Bennett 35:49
Oh. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 35:49
which, but they didn't know. 

Rich Bennett 35:51
Well, yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 35:51
So like, they're just looking at us having a five-year-old at the time, like, okay, so are you guys going to have more kids? Like, we know Jemma's a little more, but like, you know, is that something that you're interested in? And I finally got to the point, I didn't want to have a dark heart about it towards people because again, they don't know what my experience is if I don't talk to them about it. So I had a very open discussion with extended family and friends, and I was more public with it on social forums, where I was just like, hey, here's where we are in our journey. What I need is to stop being asked if and when we are going to have children. I don't think it's an appropriate question for people because you do not know what someone is going through. You don't know if they've already looked at IVF or adoption. If they've had their own losses, if they're scared to go through with that kind of stuff, like, no one should feel like they're pressured. Like... some 

Christina O'Mara 36:42
sort of medical 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 36:43
condition that prevents 

Rich Bennett 36:44
them. 

Christina O'Mara 36:44
Yeah, that prevents them coming pregnant. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 36:45
And just those 

Christina O'Mara 36:46
simple 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 36:46
that 

Christina O'Mara 36:47
words 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 36:47
people 

Christina O'Mara 36:48
think are so innocent to ask come so heavily loaded. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 36:53
uh, 'sharp is a knife' 'yeah' 

Rich Bennett 36:56
'play 

Christina O'Mara 36:56
loaded question' 

Rich Bennett 36:58
'and 

Christina O'Mara 36:59
I know people mean it out of the goodness'

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 37:02
And natural curiosity, like that's very, very fair in that regard but if it's coming out of like oh, this is what you were supposed to do next in your life time of okay, you're hitting these milestones in life, you get married, you have kids, you do, like, you know, like if that's what you're thinking, it's it's understandable where you're coming 

Rich Bennett 37:23
from. Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 37:24
But at the same time, maybe giving a little more thought into asking those kind of prodding questions, where it is a very personal question. 

Rich Bennett 37:32
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett, we'll be right back. 

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Christina O'Mara 38:45
"Pregnancy itself is not cookie cutter." 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 38:47
No. 

Christina O'Mara 38:48
not and loss itself, it's its own entity and to try and define loss and pregnancy together, it's very, very difficult and 

Rich Bennett 39:01
It's 

Christina O'Mara 39:01
because you're combating grief, you're combating 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 39:05
loss, 

Christina O'Mara 39:06
you're combating things that you were told your entire life that you should be able to do, that this is an easy process. You see it, puts it in your face consistently. It's there, it's always there and 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 39:21
it 

Christina O'Mara 39:21
it's something that when and if you do go through a loss, it becomes a new and different part of you. It becomes something that you have to grow with and adapt to because you live in a new world where the filter of innocence is gone. 

Rich Bennett 39:41
Yeah. You 

Christina O'Mara 39:42
have this new look that, "Oh, it can happen to me, it has happened 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 39:49
to me 

Christina O'Mara 39:49
instead of just being so blessed to be able to not have to suffer through loss." And we get to that point where sometimes we are envious of that ignorance as bliss. You know, we have families who've never suffered loss before and they get to live out their lives the way that they've always dreamed of. But we're one out of four, 

Rich Bennett 40:14
and 

Christina O'Mara 40:14
that's not rare, that's very common and to have to be able to always walk on eggshells is very hard and have to balance normal life because life continuously moves around us. we're walking in our own weird like alternate universe compared to everybody else and 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 40:39
And 

Christina O'Mara 40:39
co-exist. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 40:39
Yeah, that's a really great way to put it because it, like I was sharing, so I don't feel like I'm necessarily super young but I know compared to others. I tend to be, I'm in my younger 30s and but with the, I'm getting head shakes over here. 

Rich Bennett 40:57
She's getting up from me. 

Christina O'Mara 40:59
Yeah, yes. But 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 41:03
the life experience that I've already had up to my age is profound compared to a lot of people of my age that can be really hard when it comes to relating to others. That can be very hard for those who are just now getting to the point where they're considering or have started to get married and they're starting to have those kind of discussions. We were some of the first of our friends to even have children, so not only to have a child but then to suffer two losses, you know, not immediately immediately, but like when we have actually been trying to grow our family. 

Rich Bennett 41:33
It does feel like immediately. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 41:35
oh yeah, it, I mean it does, it feels like it's like wide, again, again, again, um, and so, you know, we got really, really fortunate that a few months after that loss, which they confirmed that following week, just to kind of go back to that, they had confirmed the following week, there was no heartbeat, um, they said, you know, your body's going to start processing things, we can do some stuff to try to help, but we, you know, it's at your work comfort level, um, so, you know, me and my amazing team, they, We set up a medical plan of, okay, how are we going to handle this? I wanted to do things a bit more naturally, just so that way I had less complications and less risk if we did decide to try again. 

Rich Bennett 42:17
right, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 42:18
So I, I remember, just, I remember being on the table when they confirmed everything and I was like, I, I was in such a state of just complete separation from what I was physically going through that mentally, just, I know it was to protect myself, but I remember just boarding out, well, can I still go to Florida? 

Christina O'Mara 42:37
you have to compartmentalize, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 42:39
like, we're, like, I'm like, can I still go to Florida? I'm like, because in my mind, it's that one side of like, I know what's happening, but I'm disassociating from 

Rich Bennett 42:46
yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 42:47
what's really happening right now to Well, I have good, happy memories of being there. So I want to get to that place, 

Rich Bennett 42:54
write. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 42:54
because that's where, you know, we started building our lives together. That's where I know I can go find something that's going to make me happy when I am right now at my lowest. And, you know, happy is placed on earth. So it was one of the things I was like, well, can I still like get on a plane? Am I okay to do that? And I think I kind of shocked my poor doctor. Like, she was like, uh, there's nothing stopping you. You can process it in your living room. You can process it on a beach. I, whatever you want to do. 

Rich Bennett 43:22
Yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 43:23
we talk about, we talk about loss, especially from pregnancy and infancy. We go through this trauma. It's very much similar to PTSD, and if it's not categorized, PTSD, it needs its own 

Rich Bennett 43:36
work. 

Christina O'Mara 43:36
other 

Rich Bennett 43:37
But 

Christina O'Mara 43:38
we, we go into shock. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 43:40
Yeah, immediately, 

Christina O'Mara 43:41
you think that we don't, that don't necessarily make sense, but in that moment, it makes sense to us because we can't disassociate. 

Rich Bennett 43:48
Right. 

Christina O'Mara 43:49
What's happening 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 43:50
and what's 

Christina O'Mara 43:51
not happening. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 43:52
and like I said, I know it was like psychologically, it was my body trying to find comfort in the situation at all of, okay, but if I can there, maybe, maybe I, maybe I'll be okay. Okay, if I can get, if I can get down there, I can take my mind off of things. 

Rich Bennett 44:05
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 44:05
Okay, if I go down there, I can go be around my friends and stuff that are still down there. And like, we can, like, they can be there for me and I can be there for them. And, you know, there were all these different elements, but like, to this day, if I could go back in my life and like, erase one conversation, I would not ask her that question because in hindsight, I'm like, I probably looked like this awful woman who's sitting there worried about her vacation, but oh, 

Rich Bennett 44:29
Well, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 44:29
my gosh, because I do, I feel so guilty. Like, 

Christina O'Mara 44:34
this is what happened. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 44:36
But I don't know why I said it. I don't know why I said it. 

Rich Bennett 44:41
You're on the table. Did they have you on medication or whatever? 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 44:43
No. 

Rich Bennett 44:44
No. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 44:44
No. I was just shock. I was so in shock and just trying to, like, you're you are trying to make sense of something that doesn't make 

Rich Bennett 44:53
sense at 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 44:54
the moment. It's like when somebody comes in like not to be like graphic, but like, if somebody comes in missing a limb, they're like, here's my hand, you know, like, like, like, how do you process something that your brain 

Rich Bennett 45:05
It's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:05
being 

Rich Bennett 45:06
almost 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:06
compromised? 

Rich Bennett 45:07
like, it's like, and I'm glad you 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:09
up, 

Rich Bennett 45:09
brought 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:09
you're 

Rich Bennett 45:10
the 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:11
missing limb. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:12
So it's like phantom pain, 

Christina O'Mara 45:14
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:14
but in a different way. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:15
Yeah. We're kind of where it's like my brain is trying to protect myself 

Rich Bennett 45:20
moment. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:20
a 

Rich Bennett 45:20
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:21
Because I could understand on a level, I could understand what was happening to me. On another level, my body's fine. How can we make this better? How can I not feel this hurt or this pain or this suffering? How can I get away from it all? 

Christina O'Mara 45:38
It's like your body goes into auto pilot. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:40
Yeah. And then only 

Christina O'Mara 45:41
the 

Rich Bennett 45:42
only 

Christina O'Mara 45:42
only the things that pick up that are that are relevant within before 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:47
four, 

Christina O'Mara 45:47
it happens. Yeah. So you know, when I suffered, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 45:52
when I 

Christina O'Mara 45:53
was going through the loss with Ariella, I was, you know, you think like this can't be happening. No, I have a 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 46:00
like, 

Christina O'Mara 46:00
baby. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 46:00
we have a baby shower. We have this. 

Rich Bennett 46:02
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 46:03
Yeah. You go back to levels of reality. 

Christina O'Mara 46:05
You 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 46:05
You cling onto 

Christina O'Mara 46:07
those moments where they mean nothing at that point, but you're 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 46:11
so focused 

Rich Bennett 46:12
on 

Christina O'Mara 46:14
on these those moments because they're separated. 

Rich Bennett 46:18
Yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 46:18
brain has separated you from 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 46:21
trauma 

Christina O'Mara 46:22
and real 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 46:24
realizing 

Christina O'Mara 46:24
moment and real life. Trauma in that moment and things that you don't associate with the trauma. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 46:32
And like, one of the things that I know I've shared before too is that that weekend that I was having lost before they did the confirmation that there was no heartbeat. That Sunday following that same Patrick's Day, I literally could feel the moment it happened. I don't know how else to describe it other than I I was resting because the doctor said to rest not to overdo it. Like, there's no reason to even if it is happening. There's no reason to over exert myself because my body is going to have to process a lot with the loss in general. And that Sunday I felt the exact moment that it happened and I just started falling. 

Christina O'Mara 47:05
And 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 47:06
my poor husband, he did everything in his power to try to make me feel comfortable, to try to be with me, to keep our daughter from like trying to climb. You know, because she she wanted to that was part of what was saying with being empathetic. Like, she would come over and she'd like try to lay on me and she'd try to hug on me and she'd like sit there and she'd bury her head into my stomach. Like, I genuinely think she knew that I was pregnant and she just that was how she knew how to describe it in that moment. And he was trying to keep her not like away from me for like comfort, but just so that way I didn't have that overstimulation moment of like, I need like to feeling like I'm getting 

Rich Bennett 47:40
back. My skin 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 47:41
because there was already that level of like, you don't want to have to be there. You don't want to have to be processing it. You already want that disassociation so you don't have to feel that pain anymore. And like when I went in that morning, like to like, I went as their first appointment that they had available that Monday morning and they confirmed it and everything. So it was, it was a lot. We did wind up still going on the trip. I hadn't I had been planning to tell my family and we were down there. But I did tell them before we went down there and they were all like, will reschedule, like 

Rich Bennett 48:15
right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 48:15
what, we'll try to figure it out. Like, you know, and I was like, no, 

Rich Bennett 48:19
It's for. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 48:19
I yeah, it's for her. I don't want to take away from her 

Rich Bennett 48:23
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 48:24
experience. We are going down to celebrate her birthday. And I want to go make happy memories because I don't want this time to be a time where all I think about is what made me sad and miserable and how it ruined and stole joy that we could all have as a family. 

Rich Bennett 48:38
There. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 48:40
It was a lot to process. And. Caitlin's 

Christina O'Mara 48:44
story like some do have that rainbow at the end. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 48:50
But, 

Christina O'Mara 48:50
but there are a lot that don't. 

Rich Bennett 48:52
Yeah. There 

Christina O'Mara 48:53
are a lot of families that aren't able to go that same route that others get that chance to have the moment where they do have a child after a loss or they do have multiple children after. We see it all the time within our organization where you. We even have different little things that people can relate to where I'm at my journey of life where I had 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:24
I don't 

Christina O'Mara 49:25
enough. I 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:26
know. I 

Christina O'Mara 49:26
have a child and I'm 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:27
have 

Christina O'Mara 49:27
happy 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:28
a 

Christina O'Mara 49:28
with that. I'm going 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:28
child 

Christina O'Mara 49:29
through 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:29
that 

Christina O'Mara 49:29
my IVF or I 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:30
I'm happy with going 

Christina O'Mara 49:31
felt 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:31
through I felt like 

Christina O'Mara 49:31
like in my journey enough is enough and I can't do this anymore because everybody's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:36
everybody. 

Christina O'Mara 49:38
journey everybody's journey through loss is different. 

Rich Bennett 49:40
Yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 49:41
No matter how much. No matter how much we go through similar things, everybody's journey is 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:47
Well, 

Christina O'Mara 49:47
different. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 49:48
and so part of that too for for our journey, we we went on the family vacation. We came back home, I rested for a while, started really considering okay, are we really going to keep trying? Are we 

Rich Bennett 50:02
Right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 50:03
going to have any more children or do we just want to be done because it felt like there was just literal parts of me that were just gone that I will never get back. I'll never be able to access again and will forever be always just out of reach for me knowing that okay, how do we want to proceed? And then our rainbow baby decided that she was coming to Earth one way or the other and we found out we were pregnant with her around the 4th of July. 

Rich Bennett 50:33
Oh wow. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 50:33
So it was a lot sooner than we had planned and I think literally like a week before we found out we were finally like, okay, yeah, I think I think we want to at one more time. We'll give it one more shot and then if that doesn't work, we will look at adoption or alternate options. Even foster care something like there was there was going to be you know another way that we'd be able to grow our family, it just might not be between 

Rich Bennett 50:55
us. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 50:56
the two of And so we found out around the 4th of July that I was pregnant. We were very excited and so incredibly scared. Well, and at that point that's my 4th pregnancy and I only had one child with me at the time. So it was terrifying the entire time. I was considered high risk the entire pregnancy because of the complications that I'd had not just with Gemma's birth but then with the losses. So I was being monitored weekly like normally you go in. It's like okay for the first few months like once a month we'll check in on you. Check on heartbeat, check on baby, make sure measurements are good. I was literally in the office, every, starting off it was every two weeks and then I went to every week about 18 weeks in. So they, yeah, they had me under close monitoring and then towards the end I technically was bed ridden. I will say I wasn't the best patient and I did continue to work like right until I popped. But it was because I felt like I could and my, my job was very accommodating. They were, they were amazing about about the situation because they understood. 

Rich Bennett 52:01
And the good thing is you felt like you could. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 52:03
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 52:04
You didn't feel 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 52:04
No, 

Rich Bennett 52:04
like 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 52:05
I'd never at once. Yeah, never at once did I feel like I was putting anything at risk. I hope, I always kind of joke to around the 5 month mark. You know, started to have the discussion with my OB about okay, what are we going to do for family planning after the birth? And I remember my sentence being no matter the outcome of this birth, this is my plan. And she was like, well, like you're fine now, like we're passed by ability. And I was like for my mental sake, I have to say it this exact way 

Rich Bennett 52:33
yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 52:33
because God forbid anything happened between now and birth, I would, I'd lose my mind. 

Rich Bennett 52:40
yeah, yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 52:40
And so I was like, so, to pretend, I was like, know what I'm doing. I was like, I am protecting myself. But I need I need to say it this exact way. And she's like, okay, that's fair. 

Christina O'Mara 52:48
You know, unfortunately a lot of medical when you do go to the doctors and when you do see the nurses and things like that, you are just a rotating number. 

Rich Bennett 52:55
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 52:55
We see 

Christina O'Mara 52:57
so many patients that are pregnant and so many patients that come from their door that it ends up becoming this just cookie cutter experience where if you're following along, you 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:10
okay. It 

Christina O'Mara 53:10
should 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:10
should be 

Christina O'Mara 53:10
be 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:10
okay. Yeah. But 

Christina O'Mara 53:12
are 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:12
we know 

Christina O'Mara 53:12
so on the other side that 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:15
there 

Christina O'Mara 53:15
there are so 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:15
so many 

Christina O'Mara 53:16
problems 

Rich Bennett 53:17
in 

Christina O'Mara 53:17
something 

Rich Bennett 53:17
something 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:18
going 

Christina O'Mara 53:18
going wrong, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:18
wrong, 

Christina O'Mara 53:19
that 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:19
that 

Christina O'Mara 53:19
it 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:19
it's 

Christina O'Mara 53:19
makes it so insanely 

Rich Bennett 53:22
scary. Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:22
Oh, I. Yeah, I don't say anger 

Christina O'Mara 53:25
when it come to when it comes to being meeting someone who has not experienced it, because they don't 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:33
know what it's like to be 

Christina O'Mara 53:35
other 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:35
on the 

Rich Bennett 53:35
side. Right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:36
They don't know that trauma, that 

Rich Bennett 53:38
made 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:38
grief 

Rich Bennett 53:39
that 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:39
that 

Rich Bennett 53:39
they 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:39
they 

Rich Bennett 53:39
made know it from a 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:40
friend, or from a textbook, but it's not, yeah, it's not the same as experience. 

Rich Bennett 53:47
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 53:48
Well, and one of the things too that I always say is like during that fourth pregnancy, I genuinely felt like I could not breathe. I was like, it was like I was underwater holding my breath, like trying to keep the bubbles in of just, okay, if I can get through this next milestone, if I can get through this next milestone, if I can get through this next appointment, if I can get through this blood test, if I can get through the glucose test, if I can get through these, then we'll get to being okay. Or hey, now we have viability, awesome. So at minimum, like they can save her life if something were to happen, because we knew it was a girl. And I was like like up until I heard her crying in the OR, because I wound up with her having an emergency CC section just like with her sister. Like I said, I had four, one in a million pregnancies. They both had emergency cistern sections. So I'm in the OR strap down to the table and they say, okay, she's out, like they're communicating to the team. And I was like, my first words are, is she okay? 

Rich Bennett 54:47
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 54:48
Because I didn't hear anything. And then like it felt like an eternity. But in reality, it was maybe two or three seconds afterwards. And once they got her lungs cleared, 

Rich Bennett 54:55
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 54:55
she started And I bawled. I 

Rich Bennett 54:57
oh 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 54:57
just 

Rich Bennett 54:58
that yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 54:59
because she's here. She's alive. I did it. I didn't fail again. 

Christina O'Mara 55:09
I 

did not know that. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 55:21
Oh my gosh, she was 

Christina O'Mara 55:22
out of the sits. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 55:24
The SIDS 

Christina O'Mara 55:26
Mark, I felt that relief. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 55:27
that and I had a secondary with Riley as well with that of like once we hit same thing about like 12 to 14 months I finally was like okay she's fine but no I didn't I didn't know with Christianity but yeah so like literally I felt like I felt like I couldn't breathe and then I've been working on this therapy but also processing I felt like I stole my own joy during the pregnancy because I felt like I couldn't enjoy the full aspect of being 

Rich Bennett 55:56
Right. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 55:56
pregnant because I was so 

Rich Bennett 55:58
You remember? 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 55:59
terrified of loss and so that was a whole other discussion too of you know letting go of the terror but still living in a level of okay we can be accepting of what reality might be but not letting it be a thief of joy 

Rich Bennett 56:12
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 56:12
And so that's something that if I could go back I'd love to be able to tell myself like even if it's not okay Don't lose these moments that you do get to enjoy 

Rich Bennett 56:21
Mm-hmm. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 56:21
with her like you know I'd get so excited when like I'd feel her movement I get scared when I didn't feel her movement or you know Like there was just all these things. It was a lot up and down up and down up and down and I really feel like towards the end That was part of the reason why my my body was having so much trouble was because of just this like like this tight Rope that I felt like I was just pulling around even my own self like trying trying to keep everything together Until 

Rich Bennett 56:45
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 56:45
I was a hundred cents certain that she was okay 

Rich Bennett 56:48
Wow. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 56:49
So yeah, we're very very blessed. She is a tenacious little two-year-old So yeah, she's she's a blessing But so 

Christina O'Mara 56:56
after all of this after keyless incredible story of you know Happiness grief and loss and then happiness 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 57:02
and She's 

Christina O'Mara 57:06
became one of 

one of my committee members as an anchor and 

It's been such a blessing to have her as part of the sea of hope foundation because she advocates not just for herself But for others 

Rich Bennett 57:22
Everybody else yeah 

Christina O'Mara 57:25
No, that it's okay. You can come forward and talk about 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 57:28
it And even if 

Christina O'Mara 57:29
you don't want to come forward and talk about it. You don't have to we're 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 57:33
Yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 57:33
here 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 57:33
we'll sit in silence. If that's what you need we will literally sit with you in silence and just let you Process how you need to process or just even just feeling less alone 

Rich Bennett 57:42
Mm-hmm 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 57:42
because for some of us it it like like I said with my first one I was so ashamed and scared and I I didn't know what was happening at one point I convinced myself it wasn't really happening and that they must have been mistaken and You know coming back to terms with again the reality of what really did happen Being more open about it after the second one because I was like no wait like they No one deserves to feel like how I have been feeling 

Rich Bennett 58:06
Right 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 58:06
right and so that's part of my big thing with the advocacy is it's like I don't want anyone to feel like it didn't matter that their pain wasn't real or that their journey that they're either Actively going through or had gone through is isolated You know that unfortunately there's this this club that you don't want to have to be a part of but it's good to know that there are others out there who We may not be able to fully understand, but we can we can be with you while you go through it 

Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 58:35
well, but the good thing is there is a club 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 58:37
And 

Rich Bennett 58:38
we talked about this before because there was nothing for us for 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 58:42
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 58:42
me and all the wife is 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 58:43
oh Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 58:44
they're maybe up 

Christina O'Mara 58:46
There's always like one little 

Rich Bennett 58:47
yeah, one little thing 

Christina O'Mara 58:49
and but it you know again when we talked we talk about how it's a generational thing about 

Too taboo to 

Rich Bennett 58:57
talk about 

Christina O'Mara 58:57
talk about and the newer generations are finding their voices our voices and we're trying to break that silence We're trying to 

Rich Bennett 59:04
you have to yeah Because 

Christina O'Mara 59:06
you have to know that as much as you want to say everything is great 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:12
Not 

Christina O'Mara 59:12
and there's I mean there's so many times where things can go wrong and You don't want to scare that other person or those other people 

Rich Bennett 59:21
To 

Christina O'Mara 59:21
know that if it does we're 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:23
here 

Rich Bennett 59:24
yeah 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:24
Yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 59:25
You know, we We were talking about one of the things in our support groups about grief and how there's so many different levels and so many different ways that people process and 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:36
The one 

Christina O'Mara 59:37
biggest one biggest thing that we always talk about is how the guilt and the blame whether it's survivor's guilt Whether you start to blame yourself because you feel like your body is failed and us as humans have that tendency where we would rather blame 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:50
claims somebody 

Christina O'Mara 59:51
L 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:51
else Kindle 

Christina O'Mara 59:52
that 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:53
blame 

Christina O'Mara 59:53
and guilt and grief 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:55
choose to somebody 

Christina O'Mara 59:56
else because it takes that weight off of us 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 59:59
Mm-hmm, but 

Christina O'Mara 59:59
in this instance there is no way to do that there 

Rich Bennett 1:00:03
is no 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:05
There's no definitive yeah I 

Rich Bennett 1:00:07
there 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:07
mean 

Christina O'Mara 1:00:07
there are 

Rich Bennett 1:00:07
are 

Christina O'Mara 1:00:09
People and families that are out there that do suffer loss because of medical negligence because of things like that but 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:16
Or medical conditions that you can't help our genetic dispositions like there's a, there's a million different factors into 

Rich Bennett 1:00:22
if it can be 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:22
successful or not that people don't, they just don't discuss or care to really know about. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:26
The other thing too, because, and you kept saying you kept blaming yourself, blaming yourself. And I didn't even think about this until years later with me. It could have been something with the husband 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:42
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:43
to. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:43
there's 

Rich Bennett 1:00:43
Because of me, outstation down to Cambridge 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:46
like, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:46
Union, that 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:46
mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:46
water has, you know, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:49
you never know, but you never know, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:50
you never know, you never know. And 

Christina O'Mara 1:00:52
in history, as we see, throughout history, it was always the blame, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:56
yeah, the 

Christina O'Mara 1:00:57
mom. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:00:58
Always 

Christina O'Mara 1:00:59
blame of the woman who, when and if they ever lost a child or there was some 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:01:03
the 

Christina O'Mara 1:01:03
sort of deformative, sort 

Rich Bennett 1:01:05
it was 

Christina O'Mara 1:01:06
of 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:01:06
moral failing, yeah. Yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 1:01:08
the woman's fault. The man never did anything wrong, but the woman did and it's that 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:01:15
incest that guilt, that incest real guilt. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:16
Yeah. .. is 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:01:17
continuous to this day. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:19
That's true. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:01:20
And we're so grateful that we're able to bring a voice to the situation. I mean, we had an event, I won't share any names because, you know, privacy is safe, but we had had a woman who, she was in her 70s, I believe. And she said literally, she had had a loss 50 years ago and never told a soul, not her husband, not a friend, not a family member, no one. And for the first time she felt comfortable to share her truth and to talk about her loss and she just started baling. And we were like, like, are you okay? How can we comfort you? And she was like, no, she's like, I'm relieved. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:56
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:01:57
I'm relieved. I can let that go. I can, I'm 

Rich Bennett 1:02:00
telling it breaks lifted off 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:02:01
Just literally, I mean you literally could just see her whole demeanor change because finally someone was willing to 

Rich Bennett 1:02:08
her. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:02:08
hear 

Rich Bennett 1:02:08
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:02:08
her and not judge her or shame her for it. And she said literally, she's like, both my parents are dead. She's like, my, I've never told my husband and she's like, I'm going to tell him now, like, insane. Just 

Christina O'Mara 1:02:22
just being able to have that ability to share without judgment. It does wonders. And, and one of the things that we talk about at the Steve Hopes, we want families to know, no matter when you lost your child, whether it was during pregnancy, infancy or childhood, but years ago. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:44
Yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 1:02:44
Many, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:02:45
many years 

Christina O'Mara 1:02:46
is, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:02:46
ago, this 

Christina O'Mara 1:02:46
this is not just a new thing where we have that, okay, someone suffered a loss yesterday. How do we help them? No, we want those families to know if you've suffered a loss, and it was 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago, it doesn't matter. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:03
Yeah, well, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:03
thank you for saying that because I was going to ask you that. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:06
Yeah, no, 100%, our, our goal is just to help again, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:11
again, yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:11
bring forth the conversation because no one should have to go through life alone, let alone our highest and lowest moments. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:19
right, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:20
It's one of those things where it, if you can bring more of a humanity level into the conversation, it brings more understanding, it brings more, not like acceptance in like a normal way, but like, in just accepting of a reality. 

Christina O'Mara 1:03:32
And you'll never be judged, no 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:34
what, 

Christina O'Mara 1:03:34
matter 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:35
matter what your loss 

Christina O'Mara 1:03:35
took place, it doesn't matter because what we have, what we all know is when we meet those families who have suffered losses many years ago, is they continue to carry it with them. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:47
Oh, yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:48
The 

Christina O'Mara 1:03:49
loss doesn't go away. A lot of the times you'll get people say, well, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:54
when will you 

Christina O'Mara 1:03:55
move on from it? You'll 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:56
never 

Christina O'Mara 1:03:56
move, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:56
move, move, move, move. You never ought to know. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:03:58
Because 

Christina O'Mara 1:03:59
it's been so silenced, they think that it's been moved on, but you'll meet people out of the woodwork, we'll say, no, I suffered a loss when I was this years. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:10
So many 

Christina O'Mara 1:04:10
years old and it's been 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:04:12
50, 

Christina O'Mara 1:04:12
now, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:04:12
and 50 years 

Christina O'Mara 1:04:12
it's 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:04:13
20, 

Christina O'Mara 1:04:13
been 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:04:14
20 years 

Christina O'Mara 1:04:14
now and my 

Rich Bennett 1:04:15
child would defend this 

Christina O'Mara 1:04:18
And we want them to know, please, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:04:21
age. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:23
feel 

Christina O'Mara 1:04:23
like you have that voice who 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:04:25
comes with 

Christina O'Mara 1:04:26
us and we hold no judgment. You will not be compared to any other family that is there, whether they lost yesterday or 50 years ago. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:04:37
If it's a single lot, I feel like this the other thing. A lot of people will feel guilty that they just have one. And we've got some members that have had multiples. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:45
Yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:04:45
I mean, I've had two, and it's not nearly as many as any other. But we're here for any number, any amount, but also just if you are just needing someone to talk to. Or if you want to share their story or your story, we are here for that. That is our whole point is we just want people to be able to have a place that they can come to that is safe, that is nurturing, that is caring, and is going to follow through on what they say they do. The 

Christina O'Mara 1:05:15
physical things in the beginning. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:05:16
Yeah, we 

Rich Bennett 1:05:17
need 

Christina O'Mara 1:05:18
boxes. We can help cover financial assistance for penal costs, but we are in the thick of it when it comes to helping those families who need the voice, who need to 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:05:27
to 

Christina O'Mara 1:05:28
share 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:05:28
share their 

Christina O'Mara 1:05:28
their story without having that judgment. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:31
And it continues because even if you now you have another daughter, I'm sure as they get older, they're going to want to know 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:05:40
that 

Rich Bennett 1:05:40
you have a group to help you, you know, how you can tell them. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:05:44
Oh, yeah. That's what we love The belief sibling group is because you know, we can have those 

Rich Bennett 1:05:49
conversations. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:05:50
good. We 

Christina O'Mara 1:05:50
Yeah, it's so 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:05:51
yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 1:05:52
because they all get together and they have this one thing in common, but they can they can be their true 

Rich Bennett 1:05:59
Right. 

Christina O'Mara 1:05:59
self. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:59
Kids 

Christina O'Mara 1:06:00
are their true selves. They won't get that that follow up question of well, why are you talking about your sibling who's not here? You know, I have, 

Rich Bennett 1:06:10
yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:06:10
or how to handle it when they do get those questions like, especially as they get into elementary school. I mean kids give me kind of brutal, you know, 

Rich Bennett 1:06:17
you think, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:06:17
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:06:18
my 

Christina O'Mara 1:06:19
my, my kindergartener who is now a first grader, he had kids in his class ask him. And because of the group, he was able to to talk to them and tell them 

Rich Bennett 1:06:31
yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 1:06:31
yeah, it had a sister that came before me, but she's not here. And just to be able to have those tools, it's strengths and strengthens them vocally to 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:06:41
yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 1:06:42
talk about it rather than to just keep 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:06:44
Well, 

Christina O'Mara 1:06:44
it behind. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:06:44
and the emotional, the emotional intelligence to to be able to when you do face people who because they're in their mind to trying to justify a 

Rich Bennett 1:06:53
Yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:06:53
situation or get out of it awkward to them and awkward situation. People will say things that they don't necessarily mean and it comes across the wrong way and but having the tools to be able to combat that in a non aggressive manner, you know, is good for them too. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:08
yeah. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:07:08
They can, you know, they have people who do understand, but then equipping them with the right things to say or how to handle it or knowing when it's okay to back off into quit, and not, you know, not back off because they're trying to but just they know it's not 

Rich Bennett 1:07:21
a 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:07:21
going to be 

Rich Bennett 1:07:22
progress. 

Christina O'Mara 1:07:23
We try to think of all the little details that happened in that first moment. So that when those families who do suffer a loss at the hospital, they're greeted with things that can help them leaving the hospital, not just 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:07:37
comfort, 

Rich Bennett 1:07:38
yeah, 

Christina O'Mara 1:07:38
We're not just leaving with a box, we came up with a checklist of a timeline of what one week, one day, 24 hours, you know, all the way up into a year, what it may look like for 

Rich Bennett 1:07:47
yeah. 

Christina O'Mara 1:07:47
them, so it softens the blow a little bit, but then we also provide resources for those families who do have other children to help them explain to their children what has happened. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:07:59
we're like, why they're not bringing their brother or sister 

Rich Bennett 1:08:01
Yeah, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:08:01
home or, you know, those things, so we'll offer stuffed animals, books that are on childhood grief to help kind of explain 

Rich Bennett 1:08:08
Those 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:08:08
it. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:08
are important. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:08:09
Oh, hugely, 

Christina O'Mara 1:08:10
we pick three specific books that are age appropriate in three different age categories, so that when the families do suffer a loss and have other children, they can take this because it was a resource that we didn't have. Come home and explain to our four year old why his sister wasn't coming home 

Rich Bennett 1:08:30
Right. 

Christina O'Mara 1:08:30
and it broke me and I was already dealing with losing her, 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:08:34
yeah, oh yeah, well, 

Christina O'Mara 1:08:35
so they 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:08:36
there's that whole other element. 

Christina O'Mara 1:08:37
Yeah, these were just tools and resources that we know were needed and that can start there. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:43
And speaking of tools and resources because everything costs money. 

Christina O'Mara 1:08:48
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:48
See if ho foundation is a 501c3. Tell everybody the website so they know where to go for help and also to make a donation. 

Christina O'Mara 1:08:58
So, the website is www. cofhopefoundation. org. You can visit the website if you're searching for help, if you need just some sort of comfort, or if you'd like to help contribute to helping those families where it starts at the hospital, you can make a donation through our website as well. You can see our events that are coming up, our support group schedule, and apply for the financial assistance for funeral services, or even when our scholarship program opens up in September, you'll be able to apply there. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:36
And eventually, here's stories like Caitlyn's. 

Christina O'Mara 1:09:39
Correct. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:40
Caitlyn, thank you so much. Christina, always good 

Christina O'Mara 1:09:44
Always 

Rich Bennett 1:09:44
seeing you. 

Christina O'Mara 1:09:44
good seeing you too. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:45
Even though it's only the second time. 

Kaitlyn Hogancamp 1:09:47
It's

Christina O'Mara 1:09:47
only the second time. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:50
Today's conversation was a powerful reminder that pregnancy and infant loss may be more common than many realised, but every family experiences it differently. Kaitlyn shared the heartbreak of losing two pregnancies, the guilt and self-blame she carried, and the fear that followed her into another pregnancy. She also reminded us that even in the middle of grief, support can make an incredible difference. Sometimes that means offering guidance or resources, and sometimes it simply means sitting beside someone in silence, so they know they are not alone. Kaitlyn's journey eventually brought the joy of her rainbow baby, but she was about how difficult it was to embrace that pregnancy while waiting for something to go wrong. Her story reminds us that grief and happiness can exist together, that loss has no expiration date, and that healing does not require forgetting. Through Christina and the Sea of Hope Foundation, families can find compassion, practical assistance, report groups, resources for grieving siblings, and a safe place to share their stories without judgment. Whether your loss happened yesterday, or even 50 years ago, your child mattered. Your grief is real, and your voice deserves to be heard. I want to thank Kaitlyn for trusting us with such a personal story, and Christina continuing to create a community where families can speak openly, receive support, and carry hope alongside their grief. If this conversation reminded you of someone who may be suffering quietly, please share it with them. It may be the reassurance they need to understand that they do not have to carry this alone. Until next time, I'm Rich Bennett. Thanks for listening, and remember, every great conversation starts with someone willing to listen, and someone willing to share. Now, it's your turn. Join the conversation by sharing this episode. Leave in a comment, or reach out to me directly. Take care. Be kind to one another, and I'll talk with you again soon.