Resilience, Recovery, and Growth with Michael Ostrolenk

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In this episode of Conversations with Rich Bennett, Rich talks with performance coach and strategist Michael Ostrolenk. From learning meditation and biofeedback at age nine to training with Navy SEALs and launching Team Fudoshin, Michael shares how his unique path of self-mastery has helped elite performers and everyday individuals transform their lives. This powerful conversation dives into resilience, emotional regulation, peak performance, and living with purpose, making it a must-listen for anyone seeking personal growth.

Guest: Michael Ostrolenk 

Michael Ostrolenk is a master coach, integrative wellness expert, and human performance strategist with over 30 years of experience. He has trained elite military personnel, executives, and everyday individuals to reach their physical, mental, and spiritual potential. Michael co-developed the Unbeatable Mind Academy with SEALFIT’s Commander Mark Divine and is the founder of Team Fudoshin, a tribe-driven resilience movement. His background spans transpersonal psychology, body-based therapies, and tactical training.

Main Topics: 

·         Discovering meditation, yoga, and biofeedback at age 9

·         How childhood mental health challenges shaped his path

·         Training with SEALFIT and working with elite operators

·         Launching Team Fudoshin and its mission

·         The power of breathing and somatic psychology

·         Resilience, emotional regulation, and post-divorce growth

·         Helping veterans, couples, and individuals thrive

·         Building a personal PhD: self-education and continual learning

·         His podcast journey and lifelong commitment to learning

Resources mentioned: 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Celebrating 10 Years of the Podcast
• 1:31 Introduction to Michael Ostrolenk
• 4:31 Childhood Dreams: Ninja, Mercenary, James Bond
• 6:31 Discovering Meditation & Biofeedback at Age 9
• 13:31 From MBA to Transpersonal Psychology
• 18:31 The Lifelong Commitment to Learning
• 21:31 Training with SEALFIT and Creating Unbeatable Mind
• 26:31 Overview of Coaching Programs
• 29:31 Launching Team Fudoshin
• 34:31 Rites of Passage and Youth Programs
• 37:31 Living in Ecuador During a Crisis
• 40:31 Why He Started a Podcast in 2008
• 44:31 Powerful Client Transformations
• 48:31 Conscious Uncoupling and Relationship Healing
• 51:31 Final Thoughts: Resilience and Kindness
• 55:31 What’s Next for Michael

Transcript

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we've shared laughs, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios Hartford County living presents 

Conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
Welcome to Conversations with Rich Bennett. I'm your host Rich Bennett. And today, I'm joined by someone who lives at the intersection of resilience, human performance, and personal transformation. Michael, Michael Ostrung, with over three decades of experience, Michael has coached everyone from elite military operators to high level executive. 

them and optimizing their mental, physical, and spiritual well-being. He's a master coach with seal fit, co-creator of the unbeatable mind programs, and has worked 

Michael Ostrolenk 1:35
Guiding 

Rich Bennett 1:36
closely with leaders like Ken Wilber and Dr. Len Sapuda. From founding Team Fudoshen to exploring Integrated Medicine and Tactical Training, Michael's journey is a deep dive into what it means to live with purpose and perform at your peak. So grab your coffee, 

Michael Ostrolenk 1:55
grab your... 

Rich Bennett 1:56
...and get ready for an inspiring and enlightening conversation, and just to let you know, the squeaky noise you're hearing is not Michael. He's dog sitting. Oh no, don't take the dogs. That was gonna say you can't... Torreuay, Michael. Damn, man. 

Michael Ostrolenk 2:13
Alright, I'll give 

Rich Bennett 2:15
it back. I'll give it back to him. Hey, we've had dogs and everything, so it doesn't matter how's it going, man. 

Michael Ostrolenk 2:23
I love the fact you love dogs, so that's good. 

Rich Bennett 2:28
Hey, I mean, we've had... I've had people... some of my co-hooves has dogs on here, we've had... another one that has cats, we had... I think I had somebody, and this one, never made it to the edit. 

Somebody had burr hurts, and one of the birds got loose and hit them. Well, we were recording. 

Michael Ostrolenk 2:48
Oh man, that's 

Rich Bennett 2:50
You 

Michael Ostrolenk 2:50
funny. 

Rich Bennett 2:50
never know what's gonna happen. 

Michael Ostrolenk 2:51
Ah, that's 

Rich Bennett 2:52
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 2:52
good. 

Rich Bennett 2:52
I had another lady on. She was recording outside in her barn, next thing I know, she took off running. B's. 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:02
Oh, oh. 

Rich Bennett 3:04
That's 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:04
a good thing to run from. 

Rich Bennett 3:05
that's great. Yeah, so, one of the reasons I never do this live, always record it, so... because you never know what the hell will happen. 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:15
Ah, Thank you for having me on your show. 

Rich Bennett 3:19
Oh, man, it's a pleasure. I know we've been trying to hook up. I want to say, since December, maybe even earlier... 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:26
Is that on me from having to change a lot? 

Rich Bennett 3:28
Well, I think you've had to change. I had to change. 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:31
Um, 

Rich Bennett 3:33
we had a crazy winner this year. I know you're in Texas, right? 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:38
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 3:38
I know 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:39
we're here for 

Rich Bennett 3:39
Houston. 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:39
a short time. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 3:41
I mean, just this... past few months have been just crazy. 

So, all right, so I want to start from the beginning. Actually, go back. We can't go back. Getting... All right, so... 

Michael Ostrolenk 3:58
I thought of the wound. 

Rich Bennett 3:59
Yeah, I always love the ASS question. When you were in school, what was it that you always wanted to be? 

Michael Ostrolenk 4:08
Oh my god, that's a great question. So, man, I wanted to be James Bond, A Ninja, and A Mercenary. 

And the... When I was a little kid, I saved my grandmother a lot. 

Rich Bennett 4:21
And I wrote 

Michael Ostrolenk 4:22
a lot when I was a little kid. And those are the three topics when I was a little kid, among other things I can get into that are real time. And my grandma always say, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" And like, "When we get home, I don't be in Ninja." I don't be a mercenary. And I used to read "Soldier Fortune" magazine, I was 

Rich Bennett 4:36
"Oh 

Michael Ostrolenk 4:36
like, Do 

Rich Bennett 4:36
yeah!" 

Michael Ostrolenk 4:36
you remember it? Yeah, okay. Yeah. 

I 

Rich Bennett 4:41
always looked at them ads in the back of "Soldier Fortune" when I got out of the Marine Corps, too. 

Michael Ostrolenk 4:45
Nice, nice, nice. Yeah. So, I'd say those things, but as I got a little bit older, do you remember the show Kung Fu? 

Rich Bennett 4:54
Yeah, oh yeah, David 

Michael Ostrolenk 4:55
Oh 

Rich Bennett 4:55
K. 

Michael Ostrolenk 4:56
my god sir. So that was formative with Bruce Lee and, and David Caridian. So I got, you know, I can tell the story, but I was into the martial arts that you know, I kind of smoothed it more in that direction of like, 

Rich Bennett 5:05
okay, 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:06
that's what I like to be when I grow up. It was like a David Caridian or Bruce Lee, you know, but that we're talking about when I was a kid kid, 'cause I'm 

Rich Bennett 5:12
right in 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:12
my mid fifties now. 

Rich Bennett 5:14
All right, so when you got out of school, 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:16
there? 

Rich Bennett 5:16
what was it 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:18
Well, so 

Rich Bennett 5:18
asking one, 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:19
if you're 

Rich Bennett 5:20
obviously you didn't become Bruce Lee. 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:22
damn it, damn. Well, if you're asking when I was in school, like I was thinking of like elementary school, but, 

Rich Bennett 5:27
Oh 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:27
but I got high school college, um, So I had two, two interest in life as a kid growing up. One was kind of, what I might refer now is personal development, inner work, self-regulation, self-mastery. I can tell you some stories because literally when I was nine, I had a therapist, and she taught me biofeedback, which is 1979. The technology wasn't that cool, but I learned biofeedback, guided imagery, meditation. I got into the martial arts. So I had that 

Rich Bennett 5:57
nine. 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:57
whole, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 5:59
yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 5:59
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 5:59
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 6:01
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 6:02
Yeah. Holy 

Michael Ostrolenk 6:03
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 6:03
cow, I'm sorry. Go ahead. 

Michael Ostrolenk 6:04
No, I know. It's all so good, man. I can, I can rewind it and tell you a little bit of that story, if 

Rich Bennett 6:10
you like, yeah, absolutely because I mean, nine years old to even meditate is mind blowing as it is, but yeah, please share that. 

Michael Ostrolenk 6:20
Yeah, so you go appreciate this. So, um, I was nine and at the time I had the diagnosis as an obsessive compulsive disorder. I was a hair puller. 

Rich Bennett 6:29
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 6:30
So that's my way of doing stresses in my life. I had some school issues. I had some health issues. And my mom took me see a psychiatrist in the end of the hour-long session. I turned to her and I said he's fat. He smokes. He can't help himself housing in the help me and I. 

Rich Bennett 6:45
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 6:47
So, yeah, it's pretty effing a noxious for a kid, right? But my mom fortunately agreed and she found the therapist on a psychiatrist, because psychiatrists would just put my medication back then, especially in 1979, 

Rich Bennett 6:59
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 6:59
even today. But the therapist, Mrs. Pat Lawson, she literally taught, she was like cutting edge biofeedback expert. So, you know, it wasn't as close as today, but if you relax, it blueprints on the computer screen, if you get stressed out, it falls. You know, so I learned to manage internal state through my feedback. And like I said, guided imagery, meditation. I meditated every day. She got me into the martial arts. The first three books I read when I was nine, I bought for myself was Zen mind, no mind, by Dad says, Zuki, Zen of the martial arts, and the book on yoga. 

Rich Bennett 7:32
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 7:33
So, you're like a non-year-old and like, yeah, I probably didn't know I probably didn't know what I was reading then. 

Rich Bennett 7:38
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 7:38
I mean, I understand it now, but like that was what I was drawn to as 

Rich Bennett 7:43
amazing. 

Michael Ostrolenk 7:43
a That's 

Rich Bennett 7:44
For those people listening, explain what biofeedback is. 

Michael Ostrolenk 7:49
Yeah. So, you know, you get, in this case, they hook you up to a machine, the hook up to a computer, and the computer reads your biology, your physiology. So, there's different ways of doing it. There's calvonic skin response. So, if you're stressed, your skin reacts a certain way, or they can attach to your heart. So, if your heart, you know, if you get excited, it beats faster, you get relaxed, it beats slower, they can attach to your brain because you have different brainwave activities. So, there's different ways of connecting it to the physical body, and then seeing where you're as a baseline, like, "Hey, I'm stressed, I'm not stressed where I'm at." And then this biofeedback, you're getting feedback immediately, this is what's happening inside my body. And then you can do mantras, breathing practices, you know, different things inside oneself to change one state, and then watch the physiology shift on the computer screen as one example. So, like, I slow deep breathing, the more relaxed my system, the balloons arise. And then if I got excited or nervous or anxious, the balloons would fall. So, it gives me immediate feedback on what's happening inside myself. And then I can manage that with breath, in this case, or mantra, or whatever it is. 

Rich Bennett 8:53
Okay. Are you, and you mentioned at nine. This, I'm still blowing away by the nine. You mentioned the three books that you read at nine 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:01
old. 

Rich Bennett 9:02
years 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:02
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 9:03
Which, yeah, at nine, it's hard to really understand them. I think I was 12 when I read, what was I think thinking grow rich? 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:11
Oh, nice. 

Rich Bennett 9:12
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:12
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 9:12
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:12
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 9:13
And now I'm actually going back and reading the law of success, because I read that when I was younger. Have 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:20
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 9:20
you gone back and read those books when you 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:23
So, it's really interesting you see that, because literally, I just went back this last year to get them on audio, 

Rich Bennett 9:28
got 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:29
because I'm 

Rich Bennett 9:29
right, 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:29
nomadic, so it's not easy for me carry a lot of books. I like physical books versus digital books, so I've actually recently 

Rich Bennett 9:35
say away. 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:35
got that, yeah, but I'm not listening to them yet. 

Rich Bennett 9:38
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:38
But also interesting enough, there was an audio tape audio, like I age myself, I used to listen to every night when I was a kid, on Bushito and as a subliminal message is in meditation and I hadn't heard it for like 30, 40 some years and I rediscovered it last year and audible. 

Rich Bennett 9:58
So 

Michael Ostrolenk 9:58
I did, I started listening to that again like wow this is really, because this is really formative when I was 

Rich Bennett 10:02
yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:03
a cannibal, a year's old, yeah 

Rich Bennett 10:05
well and sometimes you you have to go back and read those books because a lot of people say like the law of success was written in 1928 but it's still relevant for 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:16
oh 

Rich Bennett 10:16
to 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:17
yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 10:17
And 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:18
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 10:18
some of those books you you now granted if it's a book on computing and writing code it might be a little bit different 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:26
yeah yeah, 

Rich Bennett 10:27
yeah yeah. But some of these books when it comes to your mind and your health you have to go back and read them and even 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:34
100, 100, 100, 100, and there's mostly nothing new into the sun, I mean the science the neuroscience catch that. 

Rich Bennett 10:40
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:41
some stuff like that. But the Buddhist have been studying the mind for hundreds and thousands of years, the yogis have been studying the mind for hundreds of thousands of years. You know, so we've been studying these things subjectively without without the Western science to prove them. 

Rich Bennett 10:53
Right, 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:54
we know these practices work, you know, so 

Rich Bennett 10:56
yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 10:57
you know like hey here's the doubting it's 

Rich Bennett 11:03
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 11:03
relevant. Meditations of Marcus Arelius, you know actually Zen mind beginners mind. 

Rich Bennett 11:09
Okay, 

Michael Ostrolenk 11:10
but I'm visiting a friend so these are his books which is kind of interesting I didn't even know he had. 

Rich Bennett 11:14
You had no idea they were there. 

Michael Ostrolenk 11:15
Yeah, literally right there. Yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 11:17
well now you know what you're going to have to ask you when 

Michael Ostrolenk 11:19
say 

Rich Bennett 11:19
you 

Michael Ostrolenk 11:19
exactly. 

Rich Bennett 11:21
So after all this was going on during elementary 

Michael Ostrolenk 11:26
school yes 

Rich Bennett 11:26
and then what happened after high school? 

Michael Ostrolenk 11:29
So high school I went to college and so I grew up in Washington DC the DC Metro area 

Rich Bennett 11:34
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 11:35
and most people I was around and turned the adults and I always like to spend more time for the adults were like CIA FBI, military government contractors, those other people. And so I always thought my private interests or self mastery, mindset work, health and well-being, my public facing life was like I'm going to go work for the government. I'll serve, you know, in various capacities inside the government. So when I was in college that's what I was heading towards. 

Rich Bennett 12:03
Right, 

Michael Ostrolenk 12:04
and I did an author record interview with someone in the government and they said, oh this is the eight, just keep in mind. You should go get your MBA. I don't know if it's relevant anymore, but back in the eighties everyone's getting their MBA. 

Rich Bennett 12:12
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 12:14
that'll be a lawyer. I'm like, I'll do the MBA. So I was three quarters away through the MBA program and a good friend of mine since elementary school is murdered. Yeah, a month later a teacher committed suicide. So it's just like one of those like holy F's like, you know, just kind of threw me and 

Rich Bennett 12:33
wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 12:34
Yeah, I was like I, and I really, you know, had the realization like I the MBA was not of interest to me, like I have no interest in anything I'm studying there. I was doing fine. 

Rich Bennett 12:43
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 12:43
Or like what I'm really interested in is what I've always been interested in which is the psychology that health wellness performance, the, you know, that those kind of things. So I dropped my MBA and I went east west. I was on east coast. I'm on the west coast. They don't like graduate studies and then my postgraduate studies, which I can tell you about too, if you're interested. 

Rich Bennett 13:01
Yeah, absolutely. 

Michael Ostrolenk 13:02
Yeah. Yeah, so my graduate degree at John and Kennedy University was in trans personal psychology, which I can explain what 

Rich Bennett 13:10
that means. Yeah, please. 

Michael Ostrolenk 13:12
And then postgraduate was in somatic or body psychology at the California Institute for Antical Studies. 

Rich Bennett 13:19
Yeah, I don't have a clue where either of them are. 

Michael Ostrolenk 13:21
Okay. So trans 

personal trans just means through and beyond the personal. 

Rich Bennett 13:28
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 13:28
That's all. I mean, I just use today. There's political meetings too. But, 

Rich Bennett 13:31
right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 13:31
There's no political meeting to this. Just a prefix. So if you look at all religious systems, the monotheistic ones at the Middle East, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or Buddhism, various iterations of Buddhism, yoga, the Shamanic traditions, all the religious systems have spiritual practices, which they encourage their followers to do. Meditation, prayer, chanting, yoga, breathing, or breathing practices, centered deprivation. Some have Native Americans have pain practices. And you know, you 

Rich Bennett 14:00
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 14:00
put the condiments pain, sacred medicines, plant medicines, you know, so various ones have different things. The intent is to change consciousness. So in my school, and I studied all the regulars schools of psychology, object relations and self psychology and family systems and cognitive behavioral. But in the trans personal specialization, we studied these practices, which change states of consciousness, non-ordinary states of consciousness, as example. They're becoming a lot more popular today like with psychedelics, like, you know, a lot of veterans are showing benefit with PTS, offer instance with MDMA. or things along those lines. So we study those kind of things like how you change consciousness, whether with a medicine like that or through breath practices or meditation, whatever it is, that was my specialization in grad school. I'll stop there and see if you have any questions, before I go on with that somatic. 

Rich Bennett 14:53
No, I'm just blown away by this, because one of the things that I just love learning, one of the things I've always wanted to do and I love meditating. I wanted to study the different religions like Buddhism. I mean, all of them because of their practices and how it helps with the mind and the body. And you're meant to well-being. A lot of people don't understand that. And 

Michael Ostrolenk 15:21
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 15:21
I got it. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm just blown away. I love learning, man. 

Michael Ostrolenk 15:26
that's cool. And it's really fascinating because if you kind of do a deep dive, you know, the Buddhists are known for their meditation practices. The yogi 

Rich Bennett 15:32
Right, 

Michael Ostrolenk 15:32
are known for their yogic practices, but if you actually kind of do a deep dive into the esoteric systems of any religion, a lot of them are doing similar things across the globe at various times. We just don't hear about them because they're not as popular as the Buddhists meditate. Well, a lot of other there's a lot of other meditative practices around the globe for thousands of years. You know, people that discover that on their own. So yeah, so that was, that was my trans-personal specialization and my postgraduate work was in somatic or body psychology. So the one way to think about this is most schools of psychology is like what's happened between the years? How you think, how you think about your thinking. Which is great. It's really important. But they don't include the rest of the body. And if you, 

Rich Bennett 16:12
never thought 

Michael Ostrolenk 16:12
you've 

Rich Bennett 16:13
about that. 

Michael Ostrolenk 16:14
Yeah. And if you think about we're, I mean, you don't think about it. We're embodied beings. 

Rich Bennett 16:18
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 16:19
Easiest way to kind of understand that is just the breath. Like, you know, if I was working with you and you tell me you're stressed out, I might teach you a breathing practice. Let's shift your respiration, which will calm your nervous system down, which will give you more access to prefrontal cortex. So you think we're clearly taking more decisive action. That's the breath. That's not and necessarily just between the years. So there are ways of working with a physical body to change states. And you make more healthy, happy, more productive. 

Rich Bennett 16:49
When you mentioned breathing. And I even in the Marine Corps, they just tell you, breathe in through your nose and after math as you're running all that. But they don't teach you. Breathe in if that makes sense. 

Michael Ostrolenk 17:02
Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 17:03
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 17:03
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 17:03
Yeah. When I started doing the DDP yoga, Diamond Dallas paid yoga. 

Michael Ostrolenk 17:09
Nice. 

Rich Bennett 17:10
That's when I learned about breathing. And he, you know, I learned breathing exercises, which I didn't always a thing. 

Michael Ostrolenk 17:18
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 17:19
But holy shit. 

Michael Ostrolenk 17:21
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 17:21
Differenced that it makes. Oh, my God. For your mind and your body. 

Michael Ostrolenk 17:27
What's a map? It's amazing. It's like you can use breathing to if you're low energy, to raise your energy. If you're too high, they're going to down and even expand your consciousness. You know, like I studied with Dr. Stan Groff. He was a LSD researcher in the 50s and 60s that criminalized criminalized LSD under the Nixon administration. So he created what was called holotropic rough work, which is a very particular type of breathing practice, which induces similar states to psychedelics. So like, you know, you don't need necessarily plant medicine. You can actually induce these states because all the chemicals are in your brain. 

Rich Bennett 18:02
Right? 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:02
It means to trigger them, you know? 

Rich Bennett 18:05
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:05
That's kind of trippy, literally. 

Rich Bennett 18:07
Damn. All right. So 

I'm sure you are. But especially if everything out there, how things are changing, are you 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:16
and 

Rich Bennett 18:16
still educating yourself with everything that you do? 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:19
Oh, my God. I don't stop. 

Rich Bennett 18:21
Thank you. 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:22
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 18:22
God, 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:22
my I never want to become Johnny one note. Oh, this 

Rich Bennett 18:26
what it's 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:26
is like, this is 

Rich Bennett 18:26
right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:27
I want to keep evolving, adapting, learning and, you know, every day, every day. 

Rich Bennett 18:32
That's something I've always told my, well, not just my kids, but other kids, I don't, yeah, because I and I wish I was paying attention more in 

school. But and I always tell them, I don't care what you want to do in life. The education is never going to stop. You always have to keep 

learning, which is why I'm going back to reading a lot of these things now and learning one of 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:57
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 18:57
the reasons 

Michael Ostrolenk 18:58
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 18:58
I started this. I can learn more things. Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 19:01
Well, there's a process I teach called a personal PhD. And I encourage all my clients, because I'm a therapist, I'm trained as a therapist, I do coaching for almost 30 years now. But personal PhD is like every year, December, what do you want to study the following year? And what categories? And then how you going to study it? Are you an auditory learner or visual learner or an aesthetic? Like put together a program and then throw out your calendar. And that's your PhD for the year. I mean, it's not a little bit PhD, but like that's the 

Rich Bennett 19:31
use. 

Michael Ostrolenk 19:31
framework 

Rich Bennett 19:31
I 

Michael Ostrolenk 19:31
I 

Rich Bennett 19:31
like that, though. 

Michael Ostrolenk 19:32
Yeah, I had to do that every year every December. And then have it through the year, I reevaluate because I might have gotten through something quicker or there might be something so new that I need to study for work that I need to jump 

Rich Bennett 19:41
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 19:41
on. But I pretty much keep to my plan for the year. 

Rich Bennett 19:45
All right, now, it created me a firm role, but you didn't serve in the military, did you? 

Michael Ostrolenk 19:49
No, sir. No. 

Rich Bennett 19:50
All right, so how is it that you ended up working with... 

Michael Ostrolenk 19:54
Mark Devine in the SEALS? 

Rich Bennett 19:56
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 19:59
yeah, I was, I've been blessed because I actually work with, uh, um, I've worked with two SEAL companies and I work with a former Armour Ranger, which I'll get into in a moment. So the, on the SEAL on the, on the SEALS side is how I work for Commander Mark Devine, uh, SEALFIT. Um, I was 39, 2009 or so. 

Rich Bennett 20:16
Okay, 

Michael Ostrolenk 20:16
my wife's like, what do you want to do for your birthday? She's thinking, I want to go to the islands and do stupid shit in the islands. And, uh, while I was doing my therapy coaching, I also did, uh, policy work at the national level, mostly national security work. So I had encountered a lot of people in the intelligence community and in special operations community. And so just kind of to go going around, I ran into SEALFIT, and I saw that they had this what's called the three-week SAF Academy. It ends up being more like four weeks, but it was a pre-budged training program. It's for young men who want to go to Navy Special Warfare. And you finish it off with what's Cocoa Roll, Cocoa Roll Camp, which is the Domino's Spiritus Japanese term. That's not after hell a week, but it's 50 hours and set of five days. 

Rich Bennett 20:57
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 20:57
And I'm like, I want to do that. So, I signed 

Rich Bennett 21:01
You probably looked at you like you were nuts. Right? 

Michael Ostrolenk 21:03
up. I'm like, I'm doing that. So I signed up. I moved out to San Diego for a month. Uh, for the three weeks off of Academy, we trained 12 hours a day. 

Rich Bennett 21:13
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 21:14
Sometimes we want to clock in the morning. They wake your ass up during the ocean. And then we finish off with Cocoa Roll Camp, 50-hour or no sleep. The evolutions are in the ocean on the beach, the grinder, the mountains. No sleep. You get to eat. That's pretty much it. 

Rich Bennett 21:27
then physically 

Michael Ostrolenk 21:27
And 

Rich Bennett 21:28
it's fun. 

Michael Ostrolenk 21:29
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I did that and all the I did it with were young young men. They literally all five of them got their trydns or all seals ones actually retiring this year, 

Rich Bennett 21:40
of 

Michael Ostrolenk 21:40
which is really kind 

Rich Bennett 21:41
wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 21:42
Um, but I was 39. I was an old dude, but I made it through. I did really well. And a year later, Mark calls me up. He's like, he's like, you know, there's only a small number of people who can go through a soft Academy and Cocoa Roll Camp. He said, but I want to reach a larger audience. Um, not just 21, 22 year old young men. I to create something called the beatable mine Academy, which is going to be for hockey moms and hockey dads and executives and military folks and law enforcement. Everyone who wants to kind of be credit on a beatable mine, but it's scaled. Like, with three soft Academy, you have to come in really well training. 

Rich Bennett 22:18
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 22:19
He's like, a lot of people are just going to fall off the couch for the first time. So let's scale this program. So he brought me in. We built this program. We launched it. I ran it for him for years. I helped him build summits. Put together summits. We had what it's called the inner circle. We launched a coach training program. So I just really involved with Mark for a decade building out and launching and running or co-running 

Rich Bennett 22:38
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 22:39
various programs is. Um, also work for a dancer. Rillo, may he rest in peace? He died last two years ago, last month. Another C. work for him. As part in 7, his company. 

Rich Bennett 22:50
Oh. 

Michael Ostrolenk 22:51
Yeah. And then I, I presently work with a JC C. I'm cheating on the Navy with the Army. He's a foreign Army Ranger, the asymmetrical or warfare group. We co-lead a men's group. 

Rich Bennett 23:03
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 23:04
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 23:05
Yeah. All right. How come you ever written a book yet? 

Michael Ostrolenk 23:07
Yeah. Well, so a book is right over there. I'm putting on 

Rich Bennett 23:10
I 

Michael Ostrolenk 23:10
my 

Rich Bennett 23:10
met 

Michael Ostrolenk 23:10
computer 

Rich Bennett 23:10
what? 

Michael Ostrolenk 23:10
screen. That's my computer screen. 

Rich Bennett 23:14
it? 

Michael Ostrolenk 23:14
Is 

Rich Bennett 23:14
Oh, you're right in what now? 

Michael Ostrolenk 23:16
Well, so 

it got blessed Dancer Rillo. So he actually gave me a sabbatical to go write my book a while back. And I wrote it and I wrote the draft draft of it. And like, a week after I finished the draft, I got COVID, and then I had long COVID. And I was really sick. For about six months. I was really out. That led into a couple of months of certain recovery and then separation and divorce and I hit the road. And I was traveling the country and South America for about a year and a half. So like, the book just got put aside because I'm just traveling and experiencing new things and having a different life. I'm here in Texas for a little while. I came from Ecuador to Texas, but I'm going to probably be leaving Texas here late summer. 

Rich Bennett 24:06
Holy cow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 24:07
Yeah. Ecuador was awesome. I'll have to sort of tell you about that if you're this is pretty good. 

Rich Bennett 24:13
All right. Weemey, so with the book, are you going to continue and finish the book? 

Michael Ostrolenk 24:20
Yeah, it's actually a good time for me to put it aside because I'm 

Rich Bennett 24:23
okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 24:23
a bunch of post-separation, traveling around for a year and a half. I've gotten some new opportunities for work, so my thinking is expanded. I think he's always been expanded, so I can't use that as an excuse. But it has greatly expanded to what I had written originally. So I'm glad I didn't finish it. 

Rich Bennett 24:40
Okay, good. 

Michael Ostrolenk 24:41
And I have a colleague of mine who's I'm gonna be working with, actually, here I, within a couple weeks, so start talking about the production of the book. 

Rich Bennett 24:50
Well, you know what this means, right? 

Michael Ostrolenk 24:51
You're 

Rich Bennett 24:53
gonna have to come back on with 

Michael Ostrolenk 24:54
the book, 

Rich Bennett 24:55
I mean, gotta talk about the I'm 

Michael Ostrolenk 24:56
on it. 

Rich Bennett 24:57
gotta talk about it and pitch it. I mean, 

Michael Ostrolenk 25:00
nice, I appreciate that. 

Rich Bennett 25:00
I so explain the services that you offer to people. 

Michael Ostrolenk 25:05
Sure, sure. Um, so I'm very adish. I love I love different things, but there's like there's they're all connected, so I have to offer 101 

Rich Bennett 25:16
all 

Michael Ostrolenk 25:16
in on. 

Rich Bennett 25:17
are Look, there's times people have told me, Hey Rich, you ought to change your name with a podcast. Hey, look a squirrel. I mean, 

Michael Ostrolenk 25:26
yes. 

Rich Bennett 25:27
I 

Michael Ostrolenk 25:28
always know a lot of lives. I love, 

Rich Bennett 25:29
yes, yeah, hey, it is what it is. 

Michael Ostrolenk 25:32
All right, so I have a 101 coaching program that I do at six months and length, and it's a comprehensive human development program. So I work with you on your physiological development, including diet and nutrition, sleep, fitness movement, circadian biology practices, psychologically, cognitive behavioral, emotional, mental, I define mental, spiritual, energetic, somatic, social, your social ecologies, and then environmental changes too. So that's my individual work with with couples. I also have a six month program. It's, but when I work with couples, I also work with the ed them as individuals, because if you're not doing the healing work and you're not learning to subregulate, it's really hard to do the couple stuff. So I also, you know, that's part of the work with couples. I coley this men's group called resilience optimized with JC Glick. The former memorandia a symmetrical warfare 

Rich Bennett 26:24
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 26:24
figure. Um, six month program too. I like six months. And a couple of us recently launched team footage, which I tell you about as well. 

Rich Bennett 26:33
Yes. 

Michael Ostrolenk 26:34
Yeah. So those are presently some of the things I'm doing. 

Rich Bennett 26:38
you don't do anything of any like 

Michael Ostrolenk 26:39
Well, 

Rich Bennett 26:40
corporate companies or businesses or anything. 

Michael Ostrolenk 26:43
So I did, and initially enough, I will be again. So if you're asking me this very moment, no, only because I, there's no opportunities, not that it's actually, there's no opportunities. I've not been afforded the opportunity to work with the incorporations 

Rich Bennett 26:57
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 26:58
I have and I will, but I'm not presently. 

Rich Bennett 27:01
Okay. All right. So I have a funny feeling with the team footage in it. 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:06
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:07
because you're sure. Oh, I bet 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:09
Come 

Rich Bennett 27:09
this is I've been wanting to ask you about this team equals ultimate weapon. What's the meaning behind that? 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:15
Yeah. So, um, Remi at LA gate. Do you know the name? 

Rich Bennett 27:19
That's saying familiar. 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:20
He's a he's a former CEO, you ever see him moving Transformers? 

Maybe. 

Rich Bennett 27:28
Me. I don't know how 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:29
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 27:29
many there's so many damn 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:30
transmit. Yeah. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 27:31
Movies 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:31
Well, 

Rich Bennett 27:31
out. 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:32
he, he, he, I have to admit, well, he's a blood. He's literally isn't African American guy because he's really from Nigeria came to the States, came to American citizen, he came to seal, this is from his company. 

Rich Bennett 27:43
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:43
And I love his shirts. He has shirts, so this is just picked enough from him. He'd actually be a fun guest for you. He's done a lot of really interesting things, but yeah. That this is from his company. 

Rich Bennett 27:53
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:53
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:54
Alright. I thought it may have been for the team fruition for a 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:56
I wore that yesterday and it's dirty and I was like, "Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 27:59
minute. 

Michael Ostrolenk 27:59
that's it. It's in a lot." 

Rich Bennett 28:00
I should explain what that is team fruition. 

Michael Ostrolenk 28:04
Yeah. So, man, like, man, over about two years ago. Man, not eight months ago. Some friends of mine were talking like, let's do, let's do some really hard things. Okay. Let's turn it for something really hard. So like a handful of us are turning off for the 50 mile go rug. Go rug has a 28 mile one, a 10 mile one, the 50 mile go rug. So, like, let's try to put a 50 mile go rug. You know, it rocks that weight and you walk for about 50 miles. So, we put together a couple of different teams of people across the States who are going to eventually meet up and watching the DC to do this. And I just try to grow warn more people were wanting to do this with us and growing. So, we actually did the 50 mile go rug in DC. A handful of us did. It was a great effort and experience. And and after more people wanted to join and got started getting people wanting to sponsor us. And a buddy of mine is very well connected kind of the health and fitness space. He's like, he's like, "I have sponsors for you. I'm like for what?" Like, we're just a group of guys who got together to do cool shit. He's like, "Do you have a website?" Like, "No." He's like, "Do you have an Instagram page?" No. Facebook linked in, like, like, literally, we're just guys getting together to go in and some women too. 

Rich Bennett 29:12
Yeah, nothing. 

Michael Ostrolenk 29:13
Yeah, it's like make this a real thing and I'll get your sponsors. Cool. So like literally we've really certainly just incorporated it, got the bank account. 

Rich Bennett 29:22
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 29:22
All the social media sites are out. SealFid is now a sponsor of us. Kinetic, which is a key tone drink as a sponsor of us. I'm loaded there. Other companies are wanting to. I can't name them publicly yet because we're in conversations, but like this is kind of cool. It's three different levels of activities. And we're really just launching officially. We've been doing stuff already, so we're going to do three things. In the short run, we're just educating the public on the importance of tribe and doing really hard physical things for emotional, mental, physical resilience and interpersonal events. Like we're just educating people on all those important 

Rich Bennett 30:00
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 30:00
things. One of our guys is Will Revello. He'll be a great guy. He's a form. He's a really interesting dude, so former Humbery's Special Forces, SWAT Commander, but before 

Rich Bennett 30:10
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 30:11
he was an SF, he was actually a marine raider. 

Rich Bennett 30:14
Really? 

Michael Ostrolenk 30:15
He is a marine. He was, I think, in Okinawa, maybe, or South Korea, right before the, right around second goal for war. And he's like, he wanted a combat. The Marines were going to get it at that time. He left the Marines, joined SF, joined the Army, joined FFs and then got into combat. So he's been in your branches as well as the Army as well SWAT, but he's one of our guys. 

Rich Bennett 30:39
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 30:40
Well, people like him make some, I can recommend him offline. It's a good guess for your show. 

Rich Bennett 30:44
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 30:45
But yeah, yeah. And so, like I said, education people on the importance of tribe, hard physical challenges were in early conversations to partner with other organizations, put on events. And then in 2026, we're going to start putting on our own events. 

Rich Bennett 31:00
Oh, that is awesome. 

Michael Ostrolenk 31:01
Yeah. It's fun, man. It's like such a great group of people. 

Rich Bennett 31:05
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 31:05
And, you know, training with the group of people for hard physical challenges is, you know, hard opening. You get to see your limitations, but you have a community that's really supporting your growth and development. And you don't have to, like, I work with people in multiple different ways. Physicality is one way to see your limitations. It doesn't have to be the only way. Like you really run into, like, your mind, like, the limitations of your mind or your emotions and all the stuff that happens inside of yourself. 

Rich Bennett 31:32
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 31:33
I don't have it in me. I don't want to continue. I'm so tired. All that stuff. It's a great training tool. 

Rich Bennett 31:40
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Michael Ostrolenk 33:04
Man, from your lips to guides ears, we'd love to be like this international. 

Rich Bennett 33:09
That'd be awesome, man. 

Michael Ostrolenk 33:10
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 33:10
Yeah. Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 33:11
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 33:11
I think it's needed. 

Michael Ostrolenk 33:12
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 33:13
And if somehow or another, because, and again, I think it would definitely help if people's mental health as well. There's some way you could take this and even do like a junior team food, a sh*t or whatever for kids in high school and all that are going through so many problems, that'd be awesome. 

Michael Ostrolenk 33:34
Yeah, one of our guys, Samuel, is doing that, actually in your neck, in Fairfax County, Virginia. 

Rich Bennett 33:38
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 33:39
Yeah, he's a martial artist, he runs martial arts school, and he's doing a lot of work with kids on leadership and putting them through the paces. So I 100% agree with you because children, young men, especially but young people, humans, 

Rich Bennett 33:55
right 

Michael Ostrolenk 33:55
in our country, don't have rights of passage, you know, 

Rich Bennett 34:00
yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 34:00
getting laid and drunk, which is just like, okay, that's not really helpful. You 

Rich Bennett 34:04
now. 

Michael Ostrolenk 34:04
know, it's like, but there's nothing that makes a boy to a man or a girl to a woman. There's nothing celebrated about that transition. So, you know, if we could have things that are out there for bet, both your girls and boys, men and women, and they don't always have to be physical. It's something that can be spiritual or interpersonal or relational, whatever it is. But we need rights of passage, and this could be one for some 

Rich Bennett 34:26
sure. 

Michael Ostrolenk 34:27
for 

Rich Bennett 34:27
Well, and I think it's also they're going to learn discipline and respect as well. 

Michael Ostrolenk 34:32
Which 

Rich Bennett 34:32
Which we 

Michael Ostrolenk 34:33
is 

Rich Bennett 34:33
know 

Michael Ostrolenk 34:33
laughing. 

Rich Bennett 34:33
that is something that's missing big time. 

Michael Ostrolenk 34:35
Unfortunately, yeah, our culture does not support discipline at all. It's immediate gratification. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 34:41
Wow, man, that is 

Michael Ostrolenk 34:42
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 34:43
awesome. Yeah, you got to get this book finished. 

So, what actually, wait, man, I know we were god, my mind's going a million different. There was something else you mentioned that you wanted to talk about. And I forgot what it was already. Equal, yes. Yeah, what led you there? 

Michael Ostrolenk 35:01
so 

Rich Bennett 35:01
First, 

Michael Ostrolenk 35:01
you'll love the story. Like, this is how God works. So, I was literally rocking in the mountains of Colorado. I love to rock. That's what, 

Rich Bennett 35:10
yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 35:10
That's one of my physical training activities. And this is part of when I was traveling around the country. So, I was rocking the mountains. And I'm a social media addict. So, like, I took a break and I'm on Facebook. And, I see an ad for a training company, a tactical, tactical training company, handguns, rifles, 

Rich Bennett 35:26
right? 

Michael Ostrolenk 35:26
Marshall arts. Those kind of things. And in Virginia Beach. I'm like, oh, I'm going to be back in the East Coast, visioned family in Virginia. I can screw down there. So, I left them a message. And then I'm in the mountains. So, I lost signal. And then I come back out of the mountains, and they left me a message. And so, we're kind of going back and forth. 

Rich Bennett 35:44
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 35:45
And the guy says, I'm in New York. I'm heading down to Virginia Beach at this particular date. I'm going to be in Northern Virginia for the three days. But I'll be back in, you know, being back in in Virginia Beach here. I'm like, I'll have to move my voice back and forth. I said, when are you going to be in Northern Virginia? It's like, these dates. Like, literally that's when I'm flying in the Northern Virginia. I said, let's meet at beaches coffee. My favorite coffee joints, we met at beaches. His name is San Gil. And we sat down. We're having coffee and we're talking and you tell me all about this training. And I love training. So, I'm loving it. And at the end of the, this is our later, at the end of the conversation. He's like, where are you going next? I was like, well, you know, I wanted to go to the beach for the winter, because this is like November. And but I was going to go to San Diego, didn't work out at some opportunities. And Florida didn't work out. So, I'm not really sure. Because like, we have a house in Ecuador. Why don't you stay at our house? I had two thoughts. I'm like, I'm like, fuck yeah, that's fucking awesome. Thank you. Man, that'd be perfect. And then, but I'm also like, you're married. You shouldn't give your house to a stranger. You should talk to your wife first. Like, 

Rich Bennett 36:47
right. Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 36:48
want to keep you married. So, 

Rich Bennett 36:50
I 

Michael Ostrolenk 36:51
yeah. So, I'm like, I need, let's meet your wife first. So, like a week later, she came up. We sat down and we had a great sushi dinner. And she's really into conscious studies and meditation and the house. We had a great conversation. 

Rich Bennett 37:04
Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 37:05
And the end of it, she's like, you should start our place. I'm like, okay, if I get both of you guys saying, I should stay your place, I'll stay your place. So, literally, I spent a month in Ecuador. And I can tell you stories about Ecuador, because it was a great experience. I was on the beach. It was amazing. 

Rich Bennett 37:18
Oh, and I bet the food was awesome too. 

Michael Ostrolenk 37:21
ceviche and mangoes, literally. Yeah. It was really good. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 37:28
Man. 

Michael Ostrolenk 37:28
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 37:29
you early there? Did you 

Michael Ostrolenk 37:30
Are 

Rich Bennett 37:31
want to come back home? 

Michael Ostrolenk 37:32
Well, I don't know if you if you followed the news at the time, 40 hours into my visit to Ecuador was one, the narco terrorists, one of the gangs went into their version of CNN, took it over, went into a university, started killing college students, started killing police and political post, and within 48 hours, the president declared kind of a state of emergency, and war against 22 gangs. So the whole country shut down, military is on the streets. So it was an interesting time to be in 

Ecuador. And I'll tell you a quick two fun story. So, I was training up for my go rug. So I was walking four to six hours a day on the beach in the mountains. And people Ecuadorians would warm you like, hey, you gotta be really careful. It's high crime. They're gonna mug you. So I'm being aware. 

Rich Bennett 38:23
You're like bring it on. 

Michael Ostrolenk 38:26
Well, nothing ever happened to me. I was really fortunate. I'm careful. I'm not stupid, but I'm not gonna not do stuff. 

Rich Bennett 38:33
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 38:35
And then there's a 

Rich Bennett 38:36
I live in fear. 

Michael Ostrolenk 38:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are X-PAT parties every Saturday. So I mean, Americans, Canadians, and Ecuadorians speak the English. I was invited to these parties every Saturday for a couple of hours. And I was talking to a few people at the party and they're like, "Are you the guy rocking on the beach?" I'm like, "Yeah," they're like, "Are you part of the special forces here that are working with the Ecuadorians to go after the drug gangs?" I'm like, "No, are you with agency?" I'm like, "No." So after talking to them for a while, after a couple weeks, they're like, "That's probably why you don't get mugged," because they think you're forming special forces here to train up the Ecuadorians or the agency. They're not going to, you know, they're not, no one's going to fuck with you because that would bring hell on them. 

Rich Bennett 39:19
Right. Wow. 

Michael Ostrolenk 39:20
Cool. So that's maybe why I was a little bit safer. 

Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:27
Yeah. That's... I forgot all about 

Michael Ostrolenk 39:31
that. 

Yeah. I just saw that Eric Pritz is down there, I think, doing some work with the government, presently. I don't have a chance to look into it, 

Rich Bennett 39:40
saw... 

Michael Ostrolenk 39:41
but I 

Rich Bennett 39:41
Now, were you married at this time? 

Michael Ostrolenk 39:43
No, 

Rich Bennett 39:44
no, 

Michael Ostrolenk 39:44
no, 

Rich Bennett 39:44
no. Okay. I was going to say, "If so, your wife had to be freaking out." 

Michael Ostrolenk 39:48
No, no, no. She's probably happy I was there. Is that we were separated getting divorced? 

Rich Bennett 39:55
Yeah, yeah. God. 

All right. So, I want to talk to you 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:00
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 40:01
about the podcast. 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:02
Yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 40:03
Wouldn't 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:03
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 40:04
actually triggered your brain to say, "Hey, I need to start a podcast." 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:10
2008. 

Rich Bennett 40:11
That's when you started it? 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. I've had various iterations of it. You used to be on blog talk 

Rich Bennett 40:18
yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:18
radio, I might 

Rich Bennett 40:18
Oh, 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:18
have done Skype in one point. Like, blog talk radio, I don't even know if it's what it says, but like that's a long time ago. Skype... I don't even know if Skype exists anymore. 

Rich Bennett 40:26
No, actually, I just got news about that Skype, because Skype is owned by Microsoft and they're shutting that down. 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:35
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 40:35
For Microsoft teams or whatever, I think it was Skype. Who knows? Anyways, go ahead. 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:40
Yeah, so I don't even know what half my stuff is for years, but I started it for a very particular reason. 

So, besides doing the coaching work I did, we've been talking about I also did national mostly, but not completely national security and public policy work, 

Rich Bennett 40:55
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 40:55
and I'd be up on Capitol Hill meeting with members of Congress and their staff. And I always thought it was so cool. I was like, if I was a member of the Congress, I could literally call it anyone up, I'd be interested in talking to them, they would answer my call. And they even piped flight in DC and sit down and talk to my member of Congress. Like, I could let her anything and everything I ever wanted to, but I'm not a member of Congress, I'm not a staff person. 

Rich Bennett 41:17
Right, 

Michael Ostrolenk 41:17
but if I launch a podcast, I could do the same thing. I can learn from these experts, people that I'm like, man, I really want to learn how you think about what you do and what you do what you do. 

Rich Bennett 41:29
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 41:29
And so, like, it gave me three opportunities, one, just to learn from people. 

Cool. Sh me your particular field. And I've covered so many different topics. Also, I love to network. 

Rich Bennett 41:42
Yes. 

Michael Ostrolenk 41:43
And I love like, oh, you should talk to this person. Cool. So, I do like network behind the scenes. And I'm like, you need a different audience. Like, I want you to have this audience over here. So, because I've worked in so many different spaces of human 

Rich Bennett 41:58
life, 

Michael Ostrolenk 41:58
right? I'm very well in networked. I'm really fortunate. So, I'm like, you, you're your message needs to be heard here. So, I love networking. I love it. It's helping people expand their message and I love learning. So, like, podcast is kind of perfect. 

Rich Bennett 42:10
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's, I, and I've said, I've told a lot of people this that, and you mentioned it with the networking. I've never met so many great people. As I had since I started doing this. And the funny 

Michael Ostrolenk 42:26
thing 

Rich Bennett 42:26
is, it's you stay in contact. 

Michael Ostrolenk 42:29
Yes, yes. A hundred percent. 

Rich Bennett 42:32
Yeah. And I mean, I've had 

Michael Ostrolenk 42:35
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 42:36
several guests come back on. 

Michael Ostrolenk 42:38
Nice. 

Rich Bennett 42:38
Um, we've had, I've had several together, like doing around. 

Michael Ostrolenk 42:43
That's cool. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 42:45
Yeah. Yeah. It's just 

It's, cause I know if I'm learning, then I know the listeners are learning 

Michael Ostrolenk 42:51
right on. 

Rich Bennett 42:52
from it, which is well, that's a key. Why did we do it? 

Michael Ostrolenk 42:55
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 42:55
I definitely don't do it to hear my own voice. 

Michael Ostrolenk 42:59
I love that. I mean, I like being in guest 

Rich Bennett 43:03
people's podcasts because I do. 

Michael Ostrolenk 43:03
and Yeah. Talk 

Rich Bennett 43:04
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 43:04
about stuff but interviewing people, because like, I get a chance to read their book or, or take their course or whatever it is. And, you know, and just learn something new. Like you shared a little while ago, it was like a lifelong learner, lifelong learner, always learning, evolving and tapping stuff. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:19
Oh yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 43:20
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:20
You have, You have

Michael Ostrolenk 43:22
to. I'm sure that you experienced an Ecuador, I think of you, of interest your listening audience in terms of building mental resilience. 

Rich Bennett 43:29
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 43:30
and emotional and physical resilience. You know, so one of the things I teach as a part of my work is like, you know, how do you become more resilient mentally, emotionally, spiritually, as well as physically. And when I remember I was rocking in, it's like 99 degrees, it's hot as f, it's, you know, humanity is really high because you're, it's Ecuador, you 

Rich Bennett 43:49
Right, 

Michael Ostrolenk 43:49
know. 

Rich Bennett 43:50
yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 43:50
You know, so what I would do, and I was maybe, I remember this one time, I was 15 miles into a rock, and I was just bitching in my mind. All the socks, it can't be done. I'm so tired, all this stuff. And I'm like, all right, stop this. This is stupid because I'm just gonna leave me down a bad dark path. And like, I'm not gonna get that. So I started running hills. I said, I'm gonna give myself something to bitch about. And I started running hills. And then I got back on the path and I was happy because I wasn't running hills. So I stopped bitching. 

Rich Bennett 44:22
Interesting. 

Michael Ostrolenk 44:23
Yeah. So if you're bitching about something your head, make it harder. So then what you're doing is easy. And the bitching goes 

Rich Bennett 44:30
Ooh, 

Michael Ostrolenk 44:30
away. 

Rich Bennett 44:32
damn. 

Michael Ostrolenk 44:33
Yeah. And that good? That was my jet-out mind trick. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 44:36
yeah. 

Actually, so you shared a lot of stories about yourself. Can you actually share some feel good stories about people that you've helped? 

Michael Ostrolenk 44:48
Yeah, certainly. You're a veteran. You know, I've been really fortunate to do something with veterans. 

Rich Bennett 44:57
I think, 

Michael Ostrolenk 44:58
So sorry. Yeah, suicidal veterans. You know, I don't know if the number's correct. I think it's too little, but they say 22 a day. 

Rich Bennett 45:05
Yeah, it's definitely hired in that. 

Michael Ostrolenk 45:07
Yeah, I believe that to be true. You know, without giving names, I've done a lot with the handful of veterans who got into the other side of being suicidal and have flourishing lives. So I'm blessed to have those opportunities. On a moral, less traumatic front. I'll share two clients stories. 

Rich Bennett 45:28
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 45:29
I'm working with one guy who was recently separated. And I work in a very comprehensive way. I said physiological, psychological, social, environmental. So I had, I'm changing all aspects of his life. And slowly, you 1% better every day. It's not like you should, 400-80 degree change so you get people burned out that way. But like, 

Rich Bennett 45:49
right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 45:50
He started exercising, he started eating better. He started showing up differently at work. He showed him a different with his kids. He started dating all these things. He lost 30 pounds. His health is better, his mood is better. His mind sets much better. I know his boss. I know his boss will tell me how he showed him definitely at work. I'm hearing how he showed him differently as someone who's now dating. Like, he's making better decisions for himself and his family. 

Rich Bennett 46:15
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 46:15
Much more clear, biology is when it comes to his previous relationship. He's still the mother of his children. So those kind of things, I'm like, wow. The life can be transformed even if you're going through a really hard time separating from your wife and creating a whole new life for yourself. Transformation is possible. And then I can share with you a couple that I work with too. And it's really funny with couples. And I'm trained as a marriage and family therapist. It's so simple, but really hard. 

Rich Bennett 46:45
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 46:46
yeah. Once people get down how easy it is to authentically share what's going on for them without feeling that they have to be defended against the other person, attacking them, the other person doesn't feel defended against having to have cells against a perceived or real threat. I don't mean a physical threat, but an emotional mental threat. And both people can relax and be honest and open and share the dynamic shifts so amazingly well. And become more playful and fun and joyous as opposed to like, this is how we always do things. We have to fight this way and error and this, you know, I was like, no, that doesn't work. It hasn't worked. And that's why you're seeing me. 

Rich Bennett 47:23
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 47:23
I knew things. Let's heal some of these old wounds and learn how to self-regulate. Let's learn how to co-regulate. And you guys can stop in a more loving, caring and playful. I'm really, you know, I want to highlight. Most people when they first are dating are a little bit more playful. And then they get married and things solidifying. This is real 

Rich Bennett 47:40
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 47:40
life happens all around them. And you know, there's two things I bring into my work with couples. Curiosity. 

Be curious about yourself and your partner. Don't turn them into a rock. Or yourself into a rock. This is just who they are. This is who I am. Now we can grow, we can learn, we can 

Rich Bennett 47:55
yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 47:55
adapt. And then playfulness, like I really teach people how to be playful again with each other. And that changes everything. 

Rich Bennett 48:04
So when it comes to couples, 

Michael Ostrolenk 48:07
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 48:07
And you're right. Because a lot of times it's-- married couples are like, fashion heads. 

Michael Ostrolenk 48:13
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 48:13
But sometimes when you help them, how 

Michael Ostrolenk 48:17
I'm 

Rich Bennett 48:17
can I-- trying to figure out how I could-- 

Michael Ostrolenk 48:19
I'm trying to figure out how I could-- 

Rich Bennett 48:20
So are there any couples that you 

have tried to help where, and then, you know, once they start talking, they realize they're not meant for each other. 

Michael Ostrolenk 48:34
Yeah. And that's it. 

Rich Bennett 48:35
which could also be better for 

Michael Ostrolenk 48:37
them. So it can be so yes 100% but they have to do it consciously. 

Rich Bennett 48:43
Yes, 

Michael Ostrolenk 48:44
There's 

Rich Bennett 48:44
okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 48:44
a great book out there called 'Conscious and Copplin', highly recommended for anyone going through soon to be going through a divorce or separation. It's like yeah, because actually it's funny you see it and bring this up because I work with a handful of people who at the end of it in a friendly, hamacol loving way, realized like, hey, we've kind of run the course of this relationship. 

Rich Bennett 49:05
Right, 

Michael Ostrolenk 49:05
we're no longer serving their relationship, we're no longer serving ourselves, we're no longer serving other person. Like the contract is done that you want to look at the sole contract we brought us together. We're complete. Now we can rethink how we do this meaning we can still be friends maybe or some, you know, if your parents got to co-parent, got to figure all that out, but we don't have to like hate the other person and scream and yell at the other person and be cruel and mean to the other person, we can just like as a adult just say, hey, we've run the course. Let's 

Rich Bennett 49:33
right. Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 49:33
do this, what's this new relationship look like and go our own ways? Cool, okay? That's always a possibility too. 

Rich Bennett 49:41
Yeah, and the thing is because I think about my son's mother, and we get along better now than when we were together. 

Michael Ostrolenk 49:49
Together? 

Rich Bennett 49:50
know, I mean, there, and I see a lot of couples like 

Michael Ostrolenk 49:53
You 

Rich Bennett 49:53
that, it's sometimes it does 

Michael Ostrolenk 49:55
cool. 

Rich Bennett 49:55
run, it's 

Michael Ostrolenk 49:56
Yeah, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 49:57
But there are other times like my wife now. Oh my god, I can't imagine being without her. 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:03
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 50:03
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:03
that's sweet. 

Rich Bennett 50:04
because we've been married. It'll be, oh my god, 20, 29 years, 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:09
28, 

Rich Bennett 50:09
28 years, 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:10
wow. Congratulations. 

Rich Bennett 50:11
and thank you. 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:12
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 50:13
But it's, we still, we still always cracking on each other and you're playing with each other and all that. And it's just, it's weird because like, her and my daughter will go away for a weekend. I'm freaking miserable. 

Stand it. It's like, 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:31
you miss her. 

Rich Bennett 50:32
Yeah, yeah, both though. It's just, it's, she's like really? 

yeah, huh? I was like, I know, I know she misses me, because she'll call me at night. 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:44
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 50:45
Yeah, don't tell me 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:45
miss. 

Rich Bennett 50:46
you don't I know. She doesn't listen to this song. 

So before I get to my last question, 

Michael Ostrolenk 50:56
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 50:57
is there anything you would like to add? 

Michael Ostrolenk 51:00
You know, um, you know, if I could, yeah, we talked a lot, we talked some about resilience. There's one message I like to pass. Resilience is really important. I'm really encouraged people to develop that physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. But if I could leave one message for people, it was kindness. 

Rich Bennett 51:17
Yes, 

Michael Ostrolenk 51:18
like, you know, we live in a vocal world full of tolerance, certain chaotic, ambiguous. There's a lot of changes going on culturally, technologically, geopolitically, and politically here in our country. And uh, triggers a lot of fear and insecurities. And people when they operate out of fear and insecurities can sometimes do not not the nicest things. And I think we need more kindness in this world. Look, not more fighting. 

Rich Bennett 51:44
Yeah, I agree with you 110% there. And I actually lied. I have two more questions for you. 

Michael Ostrolenk 51:50
Um, okay. I'm 

Rich Bennett 51:51
But 

Michael Ostrolenk 51:51
all 

Rich Bennett 51:51
before 

Michael Ostrolenk 51:51
your-- 

Rich Bennett 51:51
I get to those questions, tell everybody your website and how they can get in touch with you. 

Michael Ostrolenk 51:56
Ah, sweet, thank you. Um, Michael, M-I-C-H-A-E-L, D, OstrLink, letter D, OstrLink, O-S-T-R-O-L-E-M-K, dot com, I'm on Twitter, Instagram, M-OstrLink. You can find me-- Michael, David, OstrLink, on Facebook, and um, LinkedIn as well. 

Rich Bennett 52:16
All right, so going back in time-- 

Michael Ostrolenk 52:21
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 52:21
--view if young Michael would not have read them books, what 

Michael Ostrolenk 52:28
do you-- 

Rich Bennett 52:28
--he'd be doing 

Michael Ostrolenk 52:31
now? Can we throw in if you hadn't learned meditation? 

Rich Bennett 52:33
Actually, yes. 

Michael Ostrolenk 52:35
Yeah, yeah. You know, 

man, that's a, man, that's a really good question. So I had friends, a couple of people I know as kids who were similarly like me with some of the similar problems that I had. And they got into drugs and criminality and stuff, and you know, I'd really support a parents, unfortunately. You know, so I, I can't imagine they would not have gotten me help. 

Rich Bennett 53:00
you know, 

Michael Ostrolenk 53:00
But them aside, if I hadn't learned to self-regulate and master my own emotions and notations and beyond this kind of path, I could have seen it leading to some trouble down the road because, you know, you feel like crap inside. You can't learn how to regulate it. You use drugs to reduce your pain or alcohol, whatever it is. 

Rich Bennett 53:20
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 53:20
Or you act out, you know, so I could. I could imagine that could have been on path maybe. 

Rich Bennett 53:27
Yeah, you know what? And with the things that you offer, and it's just hit me because we talked to people that are in recovery a lot. And I'm glad you mentioned that, you know, that path you may have gone down. 

Do you work with a lot of people that are in recovery? 

Michael Ostrolenk 53:44
So when I was a ther-, I don't work under my license as a therapist anymore. 

Rich Bennett 53:48
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 53:48
When I was- I've been coaching- I've been in the therapist for almost 30 years, coaching for 25 of those. So as a therapist, yes, as a coach, I work with people who've had problems, but are in treatment, or they're post-treatment, like they're- 

Rich Bennett 54:02
right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 54:02
Okay, it's under cover- it's under, they're- I don't, they've recovered. I mean, I know there's different things, which like they're recovering, they've gotten help, they're no longer consuming the drugs or alcohol. I don't work with people who are just starting that process because, like I said, I work as a coach on a therapist. But I've had, had, and I do have clients who've had drug knuckle problems they're under control because, you know, if you work with someone physiologically like I do, like you get them to eat well, you get them to move and do fitness, you get them to sleep better, circadian biology is important, stress management, all those things are really helpful 

Rich Bennett 54:39
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 54:40
to recovery and post-recovery process. 

Rich Bennett 54:42
Yeah, that's- that's what I was wondering because, and again, you may be working with someone not even know it. 

Michael Ostrolenk 54:49
Very true, 

Rich Bennett 54:50
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 54:50
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 54:50
but 

Michael Ostrolenk 54:50
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 54:50
I'm just thinking of a lot of the people that are in recovery how team Foodishin would be perfect for yeah, Teen Foodishin. 

Michael Ostrolenk 54:58
them. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 54:59
I love that, man. Okay, you got the shirts made yet? Oh, you do? 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:04
Yeah, we got the shirts. I'll send you a link to the 

Rich Bennett 55:06
yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:07
website. 

Rich Bennett 55:08
what is it? Tell everybody the website now 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:10
Well, 

Rich Bennett 55:10
since you got one. 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:12
of TeenFoodishin.com 

Rich Bennett 55:13
Yeah, 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:14
is 

Rich Bennett 55:14
okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:15
the website. The shirt's on on different websites. I'll send them to you. I'll send you to 

Rich Bennett 55:18
Okay. 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:18
upline, 

Rich Bennett 55:19
yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:19
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 55:19
Yeah. Let me any links. All 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:20
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 55:21
right, so what is the next big thing for Mike? 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:26
So, two things. Growing Team Foodishin, let me talk about internet. 

Rich Bennett 55:30
Right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:32
Which is gonna be awesome. And then, you know, I joked with you that I was cheating on the baby guys, the seals with the army guy. You know, 

Rich Bennett 55:38
right. 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:39
on, my friend is on a ranger. Well, I mentioned will Revello, who's the SF guy former marine raider. He and I are talking about putting together, and we had to delay it because we're doing Teen Foodishin right now, a mastermind group for tactical training. 

Rich Bennett 55:55
Oh, come 

Michael Ostrolenk 55:55
So, once a quarter we get together for tactical medicine, shoot house, you know, like you know, gun stuff, tactical, tactical handgun, tactical rifle, survival training. So, every quarter we get together, we do like a week of training and then it's a mastermind in between, and so the guys get together every week for you know, interpersonal development, personal development. We put together that whole program, but we haven't been able to launch it yet because we're focusing on Teen Foodishin. 

Rich Bennett 56:22
No. 

Michael Ostrolenk 56:23
So, that probably in 2026, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 56:24
yeah. Why all that is awesome. 

Michael Ostrolenk 56:27
Yeah, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 56:27
You definitely gotta let me know about that. 

Michael Ostrolenk 56:29
That's what 

Rich Bennett 56:31
we were actually going to be recording a 

roundtable podcast about brainstorming in the mastermind group. 

Michael Ostrolenk 56:38
Oh, oh, cool. 

Rich Bennett 56:39
Yeah, and that's one of the things I'm working on now is actually starting a mastermind group. You hear about net working groups all the time, but you really don't hear or see many mastermind groups anymore. And I that's missing 

Michael Ostrolenk 56:56
having been part of and run a few other awesome. 

Rich Bennett 56:59
yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:00
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 57:00
Absolutely. It's to me, I mean, networking is important, but I think when you get those minds together, 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:07
you 

Rich Bennett 57:08
start brainstorming, going 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:10
it's 

Rich Bennett 57:10
to grow your business or even your nonprofit whatever 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:14
and your yeah, right, 

Rich Bennett 57:15
right. Surrounding's quicker than any networking event you go to. 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:19
Yeah, yeah, the wisdom of crowds. I think they might say the wisdom. 

Rich Bennett 57:23
Yeah. 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:23
Yeah, 100% agree with 

Rich Bennett 57:25
man, 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:25
you. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 57:26
Michael, I want to thank you so much. I am looking forward to having you on again, because I know 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:31
things, but a 

Rich Bennett 57:31
lot more we could talk about. 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:33
I appreciate that. 

Rich Bennett 57:34
And uh, god, those of you listening, if you need his help, the links are in the show notes. Make sure you go there and, um, man, team foodish and listen, I can't wait. That is awesome. That is awesome. I take care of Michael. 

Michael Ostrolenk 57:50
Thanks. 

Rich Bennett 57:52
Thanks. Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love it if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at 

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